Search


About

Flipping Frenzy.com is your source for news, information, and commentary on Real Estate and Mortgage Fraud. Click here to learn more.

Fields marked with a * are required

Suspect Fraud?

If you believe you have been a victim of real estate or mortgage fraud, start here! Select your state from the pulldown menu below:

Articles

Our founder, Ralph Roberts, has written many eye-opening articles about Real Estate and Mortgage Fraud. Click here for more information.

Contact Ralph

If you would like to talk with us about a Real Estate or Mortgage Fraud-related matter, please click here.


Click Above for Info

Categories

Ralph's Latest Book: Click Above for Info

January 2008
S M T W T F S
« Dec   Feb »
 12345
6789101112
13141516171819
20212223242526
2728293031  

Click Above for Info

Recent comments

The FBI Investigates Mortgage Fraud!

Recent posts

Archives

Cay Clubs Resorts: Unbelievable Investment Opportunity or Notorious Chunking Scheme?

I recently received a letter from a real estate agent whose son had apparently fallen victim to a classic real estate fraud con called a chunking scheme.

With a chunking scheme, the con artist pitches an attractive investment scheme, promising anyone who’s willing to listen (sometimes an individual and sometimes a roomful of prospective investors) that they will be the proud owners of investment properties and that the con artist will take care of all the details–obtaining the mortgage, placing renters, making the mortgage payments, and so on. Investors are told that the rental payments will cover the mortgage and perhaps generate a little extra cash each month and that investors will make money when the homes are sold.

Unbeknownst to the investor, the properties are typically overvalued, the renters are nonexistent, and the con artist never even makes the mortgage payments. Investors are left with dilapidated homes, unpaid mortgages, and destroyed credit.

In this particular case, a company by the name of Cay (K) Clubs Resorts allegedly purchased condo complexes with plans to build a highrise hotel and casino around the complexes to boost their value.

Instead of promising to make the mortgage payments on behalf of the investors, Cay Clubs allegedly promised to lease back the property from the buyer for two years. Along with the leaseback proceeds (to be paid soon after closing), the investor would receive a portion of the rental income, so the investor could make the mortgage payments while the complex was being improved.

Unfortunately, according to many investors, Cay Clubs failed to make the promised leaseback payments, so investors were faced with refinancing, finding other sources of cash to make their payments, or losing their properties in foreclosure. According to one source, Cay Clubs owes investors about $10.5 million in leaseback payments.

Here is a copy of the letter I received and have obtained permission to use:

Mr. Roberts,

I just read the article you wrote for RISMedia, and was hoping you might be able to help in a serious financial problem that we believe may have been mortgage fraud.

My son purchased a condo in Las Vegas from Cay Club Resorts – The actual seller was Flamingo Palms Villas, LLC out of Hallandale, FL and the Lender is JP Morgan Chase. My husband and I went to see the project and learned that when buying you would be guaranteed 2 yr. leaseback .

What we have come to learn is that our son’s credit assets were inflated and when he challenged the salesperson, was told we do that because if you want to buy more properties, this helps. Like a lamb to the slaughter, our son went along. To avoid Private mortgage insurance, they had him take out a 2nd loan for $50,000, but told him he would get that $50,000 back after closing. He has since paid off this line of equity but wants to take it back since he never got the money he was promised. The appraisal was inflated to reflect the value of when the project was completed, so the higher mortgage could be obtained.

We understand there are some 250 plus buyers who have been “scammed.” A law firm is working on a class action suit. My son, today, was told that the law firm has made contact w/Chase’s in-house counsel and they will temporarily substand from all proceedings, etc. while they further investigate allegations.

Our son has not been paid any monies, and Cay Club has supposedly been taken over by another company. While our son had a lease agreement with Cay Club, he has not signed another with the new company, because in it is a release to Cay Club, which means he has no recourse against them for non-payment. So his condo is being rented, and he receives nothing.

I’m looking to find a solution for my son. He is out his down payment, the $50,000 he was going to receive after closing, and all rents. Plus starting in May, he and others will have to begin paying a Eugene Burger Mgmt. Corp. $400 a month for association fees.

Any advice you can provide or leading me to the right people who can help us out would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance,

Arlene

If you think this letter describes a nightmare scenario, check in with us tomorrow as we share the story as told by the investor and his wife, revealing additional details about what happened when Cay Clubs Resorts became insolvent and was taken over by a company called Desert Tides.

If you have had any dealings with Cay Clubs Resorts, as an investor or employee, I invite you to share your story with other readers of FlippingFrenzy.com. Any first-hand accounts you can relate can help us determine the truth about Cay Clubs Resorts and may help other would-be investors avoid becoming the next victim.

* * * * * UPDATE — Part II has been posted * * * * *

Above, I say: “If you think this letter describes a nightmare scenario, check in with us tomorrow as we share the story as told by the investor and his wife, revealing additional details about what happened when Cay Clubs Resorts became insolvent and was taken over by a company called Desert Tides. Click here for Part II.

= = = = = = = = = = =
EDITOR’S NOTE

Before commenting on this blog entry, please read this important message:

The comments left on this and all other Flipping Frenzy blog entry are now closely monitored by site editors for relevancy to the specific information presented herein. According to our Terms of Use, comments that are intended as a personal attack or that are threatening, harassing, libelous, false, defamatory or offensive will be removed. When commenting, if you stray from the specific topic of this particular blog entry, your comment(s) will be removed.
= = = = = = = = = = =

47 Comments

  1. What a nightmare – this is the first I’ve heard of this particular type of scam. How can human beings do this stuff to one another, just for money?

    Comment by Dawn — January 5, 2008 @ 9:46 am

  2. I think this is what Ronnie Duke with a home on Flamingo Drive in Shelby Twp. I have been told there were 11 investors, the home is still vacant but will have to be torn down because the black mold literally ate the entire inside of the house.

    This scam has destroyed several lives. I just don’t get how people can feel good about themselves.

    Comment by Marie — January 5, 2008 @ 3:04 pm

  3. Caveat Emptor! I will keep saying this until someone listens. Buyer Beware!

    You get NOTHING for NOTHING and there are NO guarantees in life especially guarantees in this situation. The first question someone should ask is GUARANTEED by WHOM and more importantly BY WHAT?

    I am sorry for those that have been taken down this path but please America WAKE UP. These scams CANNOT occur without “willing” participants. It is hard to believe that with over 250 so called buyers involved that not one of them questioned this deal. But then again, there must have been hundreds more that went through the sales pitch and WALKED away. My advice, always seek advice. Talk to an attorney, a realtor, a mortgage broker, a friend or associate. Other opinions will influence your thinking and actions as well.

    This deal is not new. I have seen it from the mortgage side for many years now and personally I have always stayed away from doing any financing on these types of deals. In addition, about a year ago, I received calls for my advice and opionion from prospective buyers as well as other mortgage brokers concerning this same subject. My advice to all of them….STAY AWAY from these deals. One broker even went as far as to tell me that he had multiple deals in one complex and with the market the way it was he could sure use the money. He asked me to find any way that this could be legal so that he could SAFELY do these deals. My response to him was to weigh the value of the earnings against the time he would do in jail. Folks, there is nothing legal about all of this.

    I am not an attorney but I would be curious to see the contracts and other documents that were used to consummate this transaction. I am sure there are many red flags that the average buyer would not recognize even if they read it.

    Arlene, the best advice anyone could give you and especially your son is to obtain legal counsel. You mention an attorney that is handling a class action suit, but your son needs a good real estate attorney to handle the tenant side of the issue.

    I personally appreciate your bringing this matter to Flippingfrenzy and allowing the publication of your letter. The public needs to be made aware. It may prevent someone else from suffering the same fate.

    Good luck in the legal process.

    Comment by Larry Rubinoff — January 5, 2008 @ 7:25 pm

  4. No, I get all that, Larry. Sometimes I read these stories and wonder “What were you THINKING?” but a scam is always easier to spot from the sidelines or after the fact.

    I still remain adamant that ignorance or even hard times doesn’t justify someone else ripping off another human being. I work for my money, you work for yours, etc. etc. Then again, I don’t understand the desire to murder, rape or even graffiti.

    I know, I know. Pollyana lives.

    Comment by Dawn — January 5, 2008 @ 10:39 pm

  5. Dawn:

    By no means do I attempt to “justify” ANY crime. This country has the most people in prison of any country in the world. Unfortunately, crime of all kind is a part of our society and our world. We can attempt to help catch criminals through sites like this, but this is after the fact. Yes, we can get them off the street but there seems to be others just behind them.

    I am getting emails from another company that is offering lease back, seller contributions towards closing costs, one year paid HOA fees and one year paid taxes. Is this just another scam? I am looking into it further before I disclose it. I do know that with financing that the give backs are in excess of what is allowed. It is a cash back at closing deal and it does GUARANTEE a lease for two years. Again, anyone looking at this must ask, guaranteed by whom and by what and can I get a mortgage for it without committing fraud? Here again, Caveat Emptor.

    If we can’t stop the criminals before they commit the crime then we MUST EDUCATE the public. This is my mission, to teach the public what to look for and what to question BEFORE they sign ANY legal document. It them becomes thier responsibility to live with the consequenses of their actions.

    Thanks for you comment. I do share your sentiments.

    Comment by Larry Rubinoff — January 6, 2008 @ 4:55 pm

  6. There is also the concept of Caveat Vendor, Seller Beware! And when it comes to deceptive developers, I wish the concept had greater consequences to them. I’ve been a real estate broker (Realtor) for over 30 years, so I do understand the Buyer Beware theory, as well as the fact that “you get NOTHING for NOTHING” and about GUARANTEES.

    You are also correct that the public needs to be made aware. While my primary objective is to find a solution for our son & his family; as a professional, I do not want to see anyone else fall prey to such practices. But as Dawn said, scams are easier to see from the sidelines. And, as in our case, after the fact. As we review and dissect every aspect of what has taken place, we’ve come to see a few red flags but also realize that this scheme was so intricately woven that, even today, expects are trying to figure it all out. Yes, experts! Right, Ralph?

    Now we are at the point of seeking legal and expert counseling.

    Here are some facts involved surrounding our recommending our son and daughter-in-law purchase:

    — My husband and I are not novices to real estate. Real estate has been my one and only career. From sales to management; from training to consulting, real estate is my life. I am constantly taking courses to stay abreast of the business, and have completed just about all designations possible. While in college, I worked in the mortgage department of a savings and loan, which is how my interest in real estate surfaced. My husband is a licensed home inspector, was a licensed real estate broker and also has done real estate investing and renovating.

    — While I had heard about short sales in other states, until the sub prime mortgage issues became public, I was unfamiliar with mortgage fraud. Over the past several months, I’ve taken classes, attended seminars and had a few sales associates be exposed to the problem. All of which, as our son would mention issues that were occurring, made us suspect of possible mortgage fraud, misrepresentation and more.

    — We did our research prior to our son purchasing. At the time, the company was very financially solvent, and there were no issues we could find.

    — We were referred to this project through a long time investor and friend who had previous bought from Cay Club in Florida. We all went to Vegas and met with the project manager. They were considering investing there, as well. They had also done research before they purchased in Florida, and spoke to several people who were owners in Florida. There were also several employees of either Cay Club or related firms had purchased in Florida and subsequently purchased in Las Vegas.

    — Documents were reviewed by a real estate attorney. Questions were raised, but assurances were made via phone conversations w/Cay Club representatives and/or those involved with the closing.

    — The 2 yr. leaseback apparently had worked in Florida (up until everything unraveled w/Cay Club). The leaseback made sense. As an investor, our son was guaranteed 2 years of rental income through Cay Club and their property management company and, in turn, they would rent the unit and receive the income. After 2 years, the owner/investor would either take on that responsibility or hire a property manager to do it. Made perfect sense, and on the surface appeared to be on the “up & up”.

    — I firmly believe this fiasco would not have “hit the fan” to the extent it did or when it did, if it were not for the massive impact the sub prime mortgage practices had on everything. I feel the perpetrators of this scheme saw that the end was in sight for them. So they took the money, bankrupt the company, pulled a few final injustices that could result in potential future scheme and even more cash in their pockets, and they “shuffled off to Buffalo” and “other unknown parts”, leaving a wake of destruction and misery for owners.

    They say hind sight is better than fore sight. How true! How true! It goes to prove that no matter how knowledgeable we are on a subject, (and I truly feel I am extremely versed in real estate), a well put together scheme can elude you.

    It’s also difficult to comprehend such deceitfulness when you have always practiced ethically, morally and professionally. Guess there’s nothing like an old fool, but hey, I’m not that old. However, based on this experience, I sure was a fool! And my children, the victims!

    Comment by Arlene Urban — January 6, 2008 @ 5:06 pm

  7. Arlene: I just read your most recent post. Please forgive me if I appeared to talk down to your knowledge, experience or integrity. I certainly did not mean to do so. I to have as much experience in Real Estate and Finance.

    Now, with the additonal background you give, I must wonder what happened and what made things go wrong. If the due diligence you did perform, the people that you spoke to and the attorney that reviewed the documents found no problems to that point then where did it go wrong?

    Your comment above, “– I firmly believe this fiasco would not have “hit the fan” to the extent it did or when it did, if it were not for the massive impact the sub prime mortgage practices had on everything” does have validity. Many investments have gone sour because of the “credit crisis”, the shortage of liquidity in the capital markets and not so much related to sub prime as the media has tagged it. If the market kept on rolling upwards even ever so slightly your kids may not have been in this situation.

    From what you say, your advice was good at the time but times changed economically rather abruptly. I am sure your own real estate business reflects that as well, I know my mortgage business has.

    So, before we convict others for criminal activity, we really need to sort out if this was a “scam” which means there was never an intent for the buyers to come out or if this was just an investment gone bad due to economic circumstance. Yes, there may be contract violations here, ie. the non performance of a lease agreement if there is one, but that is a civil violation not a criminal violation which the labels “scam” and “fraud” indicate.

    Above all, don’t hold yourself responsible for this. You, with all your years in real estate, nor I with all my years in real estate and I imagine even Ralph with all of his years in the business could never have predicted the market would do a complete about face almost overnight. This is unprecedented in our history. I live and work in Florida and I am seeing depreciation of up to 40%. Does that mean that every buyer who now has negative equity was “scammed”? Of course not. You and I have both seen the cycles in the market over the past 30 years (ooh, I must be an old horse) but not one like this. I can’t even say this is a cycle as the market crashed almost overnight just as the dot coms did a few years back.

    Some questions now are: 1. How much is the unit worth today?
    2. What can it legitimately rent for? 3. How often can it be rented, weekly, monthly, etc.

    Maybe you can still turn this into a positive. It may not have the upside potential it once did, but right now, I know of very few markets where real estate has an upside.

    Real Estate has always been a long term hold investment but unfortunately, in the past few years it has become a short term, “flippingfrenzy” type of investment. The bubble burst not so much because of sub prime or even fraud, it burst because the capital markets allowed it to inflate with lax guidelines and programs. How about all of those stock market investors that were the ultimate buyers of all of those mortgage backed securities sold to them by their trusted Wall Street bankers. Those investors, be they institutional or individual or even foreign governments, lost even more. Maybe, just maybe, we are looking at the wrong end of the iceberg.

    Comment by Larry Rubinoff — January 7, 2008 @ 8:06 pm

  8. Larry,

    There are some additional items that have occurred with the Las Vegas project.

    The units were appraised by one appraiser and many of the investors were guided to one specific lender. After some investigation, it has been found that the appraisals were indeed inflated and the LO worked very closely with the appraiser. It appears that the appraisals were completed to make the number ‘look right’.

    Fortunately, with appropriate legal representation, this particular issue can be addressed with a number of options with the lender and appraiser. Additionally, there is a question on the licensing of the appraiser at this time. So, that throws yet another wrench into the works.

    Understandably that the market is feeling the economic squeeze of the current situation, this particular project had some other skeletons in the closet that are now being found. Whether Cay Clubs and Dave Clark’s intentions were good or not it immaterial at this point. I am with you to give someone or a company the benefit if the economic crunch caused these issues, but I am reluctant to nod on a free pass when investigations after the fact have begun to uncover outright fraud.

    This is probably some of the reasons that the discussions of re-negotiated mortgages and/or forebearance options are ongoing with lenders.

    Just figured you may want additional information for future comments.

    Comment by Bryan — January 8, 2008 @ 1:56 pm

  9. Bryan:

    Thank you. Yes, I am interested in learning more of the details about this deal. It is important that we learn about the skeletons that existed in addition to the possibility of fraudulant appraisals, etc. This is the information the public needs to hear about to enable them to learn what to look for and to question in future deals.

    I to, do not advocate a “free pass” on any wrongdoing. I just want to see more facts before we pass judgement. Lets face it, there are some who are crying fraud just because the deal didn’t work out the way they expected it to. All investments have risk and all invetments have the risk of failing. What we need to do is to sort out failed investments from fraudulent investment schemes. If there is fraud let’s expose it, let’s shut it down and let’s see that the people responsible are prosecuted be they individuals or high ranking officials with major corporations.

    This has become a good discussion. Let’s keep probing into it. There are other very similar deals like this one going on. As the old saying goes, “not all that glitters is gold”. This is a good education for all.

    Comment by Larry Rubinoff — January 8, 2008 @ 5:47 pm

  10. Larry,

    While this is a very captivating subject worth discussing, and I can appreciate your interst in learning more details, those of us involved need to be cautious as attorneys have advised us not to give out details that could impede our legal efforts to resolve the problem. Presently we are investigating everything and, believe me, fraudulent activities will be exposed. And those involved will be held accountable. Additionally, blogs are open to everyone, and therefore, not the arena for such details. I’m sure you, as a professional, can appreciate that.

    Let’s be clear, this is not an investment gone sour. Bryan shared a few issues that have been uncovered. And as further investigations continue, we are learning more and more.

    I didn’t feel you were talking down to me. In fact, you had some good comments and suggestions.

    However, even due diligence and qualified attorneys can’t always detect a highly intricate web of deception, as this was.

    There is a big difference between negative equity and a “scam”. Those who bought here didn’t have any “credit crisis”. It had to do with a well thought out and executed scheme. You could be right that our kids might not have been in this situation if the market keep on rolling upwards. While it seemed Florida was doing well over the last 5 years or so, it was a false sense of security. The “master minds” of this development pulled unethical acts here that have had a very negative impact on value, ownership and the future of the Florida complex. Yes, the down market played a part in this, but unscrupulous people found a way to cash in and that, my friend, is a scam.

    Comment by Arlene — January 8, 2008 @ 9:06 pm

  11. Arlene:

    I completely concur with your attorney’s advice. I still am curious to learn more facts as that may help me help other in the future. I am sure as this case unfolds, more information will be forthcoming to the public.

    Your are also correct when you talk about due diligence. It is most difficult to discover everything in the type of due diligence one may do when purchasing an individual piece of real estate. It is most cost prohibitive to do so and if everyone started doing that nothing would sell and close for months on end.

    But a professional is a professional in any field even if it is not a legitimate enterprise and they are difficult to discover. There are many scams worldwide especially with the advent of the computer age and many go unsolved leaving many victimized.

    A sad commentary on our society when fraud and scams are so prevalent. I can remember the days when my father did business on a hand shake and taught me to do the same but that era is gone forever.

    In reference to the market and values specifically in Florida, this was not as you put it “a false sense of security”; it was what was actually happening. Those values were market at the time. Florida is the fastest growing state in the country and at the time there were over 1,000 people a day moving here. Unfortunately, now is a different story. The Tampa Bay area along with Las Vegas are in the top 4 worst real estate markets in the country. Not a pleasant reality as I live here and see my value declining. This market is seeing declines of 40% from just a year ago. A year ago November a property here legitimately appraised for 1.9 million dollars. Today it may be at its highest 1.3 million dollars. At the other end of the spectrum houses that valued at 180,000 can now be purchased for $80,000.

    This has little to do with your situation but I am compelled to tell it like it is. Not a pretty picture for many me included. The harsh reality of this “credit crisis” I referred to was that the impact of it is affecting everyone. This country is going to lose Trillions, yes trillions with a “T” in equity value. Many hard working, everyday people like you, me your son and my son and his wife are paying the price.

    There is more to the “bubble” then is being reported. It was artificial inflation driven not by demand created by actual supply of product, a valid free market concept, but by the supply of money that was made available. This supply was not limited to just mortgage financing but to consumer credit and credit cards as well.

    As you say, “Yes, the down market played a part in this, but unscrupulous people found a way to cash in and that…” That, my friend, is the sad part. Unscrupulous people will always be around and find ways to defraud the public. The worse our economy gets the more these people seem to surface. That is why I preach “Caveat Emptor”, to let everyone know, as you are doing, what to look out for. If they, the unscrupulous people, are out there, we, the people, need to be smarter. Few come forward to admit what has happened, they are too embarrassed. But, if more like you do, we can begin to stem the tide.

    I applaud you for going public with this and I applaud Ralph for taking your story and running with it. I can only hope that when it is all said and done, your son and his wife can recover.

    I can be contacted by clicking on my name in this comment. I would welcome the opportunity to speak with you privately with the permission of Flippingfrenzy.com of course.

    Comment by Larry Rubinoff — January 9, 2008 @ 10:57 pm

  12. I agree with Arlene that people will have to be careful about divulging too many details regarding ongoing investigations. Let the law enforcement officials, FBI, etc. do their work and keep the “mastermind schemers” wondering when they will come knocking on their door. After all, it should be the scammers that lay awake at night, not the victims of their fraud!

    Comment by Louise — January 9, 2008 @ 11:54 pm

  13. Believe me, Larry, I wish we still lived in a world where we could do business on a handshake. Unfortunately, our society has changed to the point where you don’t know who you can trust anymore. This just gets magnified more after you’ve become the victim to fraud! It’s funny how you try to live your life as a honest, ethical, law abiding citizen only to fall a victim to a dishonest, unethical, illegal scam!

    Comment by Carisa — January 10, 2008 @ 12:13 am

  14. I’m sitting in the same place I was 2 years ago,in a nice 2 bedroom condo in Clearwater, FL. 2 years ago people like you and I were crowding the reception and sales areas trying to take advantage of what turned out to be the largest scam in Florida.It is now basicly a ghost town.We were given the lender to use. They used their appraisers who used comparables inflated by early cash sales made by Cay Club partners and their friends.My income and debt load was manipulated to fit the mortgage.No portion of the common ground was transferred to me.To keep from paying mortgage insurance the mortgage company did a loan for 20% and one for 80%.I was told to sign whatever I was asked to. It would be ok.I was told by the director of sales my unit would be purchased from me if there was a problem.A year from purchase I was to list my condo with Cay Clubs and it would be sold at a profit. The words bubble-proof and waterfront wre used to describe the property.The commercial area in front of the complex was to be upscaled with high end shops, a water park and other first class ementities.None of this has been built. Our units have a $1200 lien placed on them for the next 30 years by a CDD that is controlled by Dave Clark and and needs not answer to any of us as owners or the City of Clearwater.The rental company now in place has bought the common grounds our units sit on.For renting our units they take 65% off the top with no gaurantee of rental time.In an appraisal done for Chase mortgage co. in April 07,the appraiser used listing prices of comparible units for comps. These units later sold for about half that amount. Other family members also purchased from Cal Clubs or what ever LLC they were using that day.

    Comment by Nameless — January 10, 2008 @ 1:31 pm

  15. Correction by nameless. The rental company is taking 35% not 65%.

    Comment by Nameless — January 10, 2008 @ 2:14 pm

  16. Nameless: The feeding frenzy you speak of caused the flipping frenzy which contriuted to the meltdown. One comment made to you was correct, being on or near water is a positive but does not make it bubble proof as we now see. Those areas historically recover quicker. Tampa Bay while suffering along with the rest of the nation has more potential for upswing sooner then most other areas. Long term prospects of recovery are good, question being can you hold on and for how long? One thing this meltdown did do is put real estate back to a long term hold rather then a quick trade commodity.

    In terms of the common area or ground as you put it, you should have a copy of your condominium documents. You as an owner automatically own your pro rata share of the Condominium Association which has to be a registered Florida corporation. There is no separate transfer of ownership for common area. It is owned by the Association which you are a member of. Check your condo docs, it is either a thick book or many now put it on a CD.

    You may want to consider removing your unit from the management company, if you can, and possibly rent the unit out yourself, annually if you can. The rental market is picking up as the housing market declines. There are over 6500 foreclosures in Pinellas County which means there are over 6500 potential renters out there. Just a thought.

    Comment by Larry Rubinoff — January 10, 2008 @ 11:20 pm

  17. Larry,
    Agreed that the common area can not be sold. The condo docs state the common areas are simply that…..common usage areas that we all pay for.

    I, too, own in Las Vegas and Clearwater.
    I, too, thought I was buying a nightly rental resort that would be managed properly and ethically.
    I, too, thought I could sell at any time and the Cay Clubs would buy it back into the retail side of the house.

    I was smart enough not to use their mercenary ‘preferred lenders’ but not smart enough to prevent me from buying into this nightmare.

    I have a $500K loan in Clearwater and a similiar one in Las Vegas.

    I am seeking a short sale or deed in lieu negotiation with my lenders.

    My future is ruined: my life savings are being burned up every month by paying a mortgage for properties that have not rented, a company that abandoned the concept, a debt with high interest rates and high condo fees and exhorbitant property taxes.

    Funny thing is, I was going to do real estate buying on my own. Buy a reasonably priced property and fix it up nicely and rent it out. I was being so conservative, so careful, so prudent with my money….and then a friend told me that he’d bought 8 units with Cay Clubs and that everyone was so nice, the units beautiful and the concept sounded so great…..

    Last night my best friend told me that I’m not the same woman any more….no laughter, no smiles, no playfulness…just angry, sullen, sad and depressed.

    I guess that sums it up….
    Oh, yes, one thing….my 28 year son told me he’ll always love me no matter what. That what he loves about me is not my money, not my successes, but my generous, trusting and loving heart.
    I guess in the final analysis, that truly is the one thing that Cay Clubs can never take away from me.

    Sleepless……

    Comment by Nameless — January 14, 2008 @ 4:42 pm

  18. I am an “investor” in the Cay Clubs Orlando complex. My closing date was in September 2007. Here is my story.

    My dealings with Cay Clubs started when a realtor in Denver proposed this “investment” in a portfolio of investment opportunities. My due dilligence involved a search for Cay Clubs through the BBB within Orldando, Clearwater and Las Vegas. My search resulted in 1 negative findings, but per the BBB this was resolved amiacably between the parties. I also looked at the location; propoganda from Cay Clubs; saw of an interview between this realtor and Cay Clubs and IMG Acadamies; etc. My due dilligence led me to invest in the property.

    I started my application process with Chase in August and about half-way through the process I was notified by Chase that they were over extended in the project and couldn’t continue with my loan. Cay Clubs referred me to another lender, West America Mortgage to continue with the process. (Do you think that Chase new something that I didn’t? Hmmm, inquiring minds want to know.)

    The process continued and I purchased a 1 bedroom, 1 bath unit. subsequently I signed a leaseback arrangement with Cay Clubs which they have subsequently defaulted.

    The business drivers for this investment were the Leaseback arrangement (20% of my purchase price to pay for my operating expeses for 2 years), IMG Academies (supposed to have enough demand to lease 70% of the unites), and a $20,000 furniture package which I was to receive. Two out of the three drivers are now gone, and IMG Academies is a maybe. I cannot afford the property without the leaseback arrangement, and if the property is in default and converting the property to a resort is way up in the air, the property is now worth about 1/2 of what I paid for it. Although my credit score going into this property was 785, I am now going to go through foreclosure. I have never defaulted on anything in my life, this is killing both my wife and I.

    Comment by Brian Colburn — January 15, 2008 @ 11:01 am

  19. To Sleepless a/k/a Nameless and Brian:

    What a nightmare. I do understand what you are going through. There are many issues here and I am hopeful that you have legal advice. There is a law firm out of Orlando putting together a class action suit. When you google Cay Club the site for the law firm comes up.

    If you do have legal representation then please check with your attorney on my suggestion. I am not a lawyer, just an old fashioned mortgage broker.

    You may want to consider leasing the units out yourself or hiring someone to do it. All of the markets you are in are strong tourist areas. I live in Clearwater Beach and there are many Realtors here that specialize in the tourist market.

    You cannot be required to put your unit into the rental pool, that “should be” your option. You should have the right and ability to rent it yourself. The rental market in general is getting strong unfortunately due to the bad housing market and the number of foreclosures. If you can do this and are successful in getting some income, it may help defray some of your costs and expenses.

    Nameless, of course your son still loves you. What is happening to you has absolutely no reflection on who and what you are. You entered this transaction in good faith and it is obvious that there was very little performance from the other side. You cannot control the actions of others nor blame yourself for their non performance.

    Brian, in terms of the short sale or deed in lieu, please, if you have not already done so seek professional advice on these actions as well. On a short sale there are tax consequences. The amount of of the deduction is taxable as income.

    Comment by Larry Rubinoff — January 15, 2008 @ 6:25 pm

  20. Correction:
    My comment about short sales and deed in lieu was meant for Nameless not Brian. Brian did not mention either of those topics.

    My comment for Brian was related to his comment, “(Do you think that Chase new something that I didn’t? Hmmm, inquiring minds want to know.)” It is common for lenders to limit the number of loans they will do in any given complex. They do not want to have all the exposure should a projects, like these, go bad.
    This is not to say that someone at Chase did have some info, only the investigations will determine that. Chase is one of the good guys in lending but then again, there could be some bad apples there as well.

    Comment by Larry Rubinoff — January 15, 2008 @ 6:34 pm

  21. I did not use Chase as the fees were sky high and mercenary.

    The sales organization of Cay Club pressured buyers to use their preferred lenders to make the process go quickly and smoothly as they claimed.
    It was for an entirely different reason.

    Ross Pickard, Preferred Lender so to speak, was the broker for Chase mortgage and he was a bad guy so to speak. He charged exhorbitant rates and fees. One owner paid more than $20,000 in closing fees and points, which is criminal. I’ve bought more than 8 houses and refinanced each of them multiple times and I’ve NEVER paid a point. I’ve shopped around for loans for weeks and months but always found a reputable loan broker….

    There were many unscrupulous people along the way within the Cay Club organization. It was told to a good friend that Ross Pickard was closing 25 to 30 loans per month at an average rate of not less than $15,000 per loan in rebates from the lender and direct costs to the borrower.
    Do the math….

    Comment by Nameless — January 15, 2008 @ 8:59 pm

  22. I wonder if some of the people filing lawsuits are aware they too committed fraud. To my knowledge there was a very short window of available 95-100% financing on investment condos. This means a lot of them did the mortgage as a 2nd home of which the rider was signed at closing stating such. The fact that they never planned to live in it and knowingly collected or planned to collect rental money is fraud. The lender can call the note due at any time just for this reason alone. So in short, there was some greed and fraudulent behavior involved with some investors as well.

    Comment by Devils advocate — January 18, 2008 @ 11:44 am

  23. Everyone planned to use Cay Clubs as a vacation spot and thus these units were second homes to all of us. We paid for a membership in a network of vacation resort homes and planned to share each others homes.

    Comment by Nameless — January 18, 2008 @ 9:34 pm

  24. Devil’s Advocate- Sure some of the people filing lawsuits or who trying to rectify their situations, fear that they could be viewed as participants in fraud. But they didn’t know it at the time. They are innocent investors. As you begin uncovering various sinister aspects of the transactions, you question your own actions. And then you stop in your tracks and wonder: “oh my gosh, based on what I’ve learned, could I have done something wrong?!!!” It’s a sad day when the truth about a crime can be twisted where by the criminal looks to be innocent and the victim appears to be the wrong doer.

    You are all wrong. For the most part these are people who invested life savings in what appeared to be legitimate projects from developers with a solid financial report and, in some cases, came highly endorsed by long time acquaintances. Sure, as investors, they wanted to make money. The reason for investments is to make a profit. But profit isn’t a dirty word, and it isn’t the same as greed. And they weren’t trying to make that profit dishonestly.

    The 95% + investment money – is the program the sales team and the various loan officers through the approved lenders made available for these projects. What’s to question? True, most were not planning on living there. But again, the lender knew this was investment property, and they choose to use documents that said “2nd home”. Why would an investor challenge it? As a consumer, that’s not your area of expertise. The lender should know and use appropriate documents. When you are dealing with a “reputable lender”, like a Chase or Countrywide and the loan officer knows the project as intimately, as these loan officers did, as a borrower, you have no reason to feel suspect.

    It’s easy to “spin” the facts and say the investor/borrower is wrong. Let me suggest you read these stories again. Because when you do, you will see who perpetrated the fraud and who were the Greed Mongrels. The developer, the salespeople, the appraisers, the loan officers and lenders are all involved together and it was their Greed that caused the fraudulent behaviors. Let’s put the blame where it belongs, on the REAL criminals, those who created the scheme and profited from the fraud; not the victims who lost their savings, property, credit, and in some cases, family. Unless you are involved with the Cay Club yourself, you will see that.

    Comment by Arlene — January 18, 2008 @ 10:26 pm

  25. Nameless made a very important point – while this was an investment, it was also intended to be used for vacations. And a membership fee was paid by all owners/investors to ulitiize the amenities. So when Devil’s Advocate says owners committed fraud by signing a rider calling this a “2nd home”, that’s incorrect. The explanation given by loan officer for the document to be labeled “2nd home” were these two factors. As for the loan percentage, ask them (lenders & Cay Club). We didn’t ask for that specific loan program, that was loan being offered.

    So, if that was fraud , it was committed by the loan officer/ lender, as well as Cay Club personnel.

    As Arlene pointed out, it’s amazing what you learn after seeking legal counsel and talking w/other owners.

    This was well thought out. It was planned and executed by Cay Club management and their attorneys – even to the extent that now WE are being viewed as the wrong doers by those who know nothing of what took place. And we are labeled as “willing participants”, implying we are stupid. We did our homework, but the Cay Club group covered their tracks well. We’re said to be “greedy”, when trying to make an honest buck. Was Cay Club earning their money “honestly”? I think NOT. Everything they did was fraudulent – Everything & Everyone Involved.

    As owners, we are working to right the wrong because we have Intregrity which is more than anyone can say about the entire Cay Club organization.

    Comment by Honest Investor — January 19, 2008 @ 12:38 pm

  26. Sorry, I didn’t mean that every buyer committed fraud. It was just a general comment not aimed toward any poster in particular. It looks as though there is a lease agreement on the properties which makes them investments. If a buyer and loan officer did it knowingly or unknowingly that would be a whole other issue.

    Comment by Devils advocate — January 20, 2008 @ 2:34 pm

  27. Devil’s Advocate –
    I can understand your view point regarding the lease agreement making the property an investment. However, when questioned about the mortgage documents, the loan officer was very specific in his explanation that was because the owner had two weeks that they were planning to personally use the property was why the document was being labelled “2nd home”.

    When you are dealing with a large, reputable lender, you presume they are conducting business in an ethical manner. And that when you question them, you are receiving an honest answer.
    It would also be expected that before hiring the loan officers, complete back ground checks were done, and that they were clearly instructed on ethics, as well as signing Code of Conduct document.

    Comment by Arlene — January 20, 2008 @ 5:58 pm

  28. Yes, that very well could be the policy of your lender which you would have to trust your loan officer knows. If all of the buyers went through that lender then I take back my statement. That goes to show the difference in lenders because some others say if you collect $1 in rent or rent it for one day a year it is an investment.

    Comment by Devils advocate — January 21, 2008 @ 10:47 am

  29. Yes, it speaks volumes for lenders’ approach. I also reralize that various factors play into their rationalization of approving these loans.

    Read Ralph Roberts article “What’s Really Going on in the Lending Industry” posted on RISMedia, Jan. 7, 2008. As he said ” it takes more than one to hold a “fraud party.” And more than just the lender attended this party. Unfortunately, the borrower way paying the bill.

    From my experiences with lenders, I agree when he says “the lending industry functions as a good ol’ boys network, with favors being traded to the detriment of consumers, the industry, and the entire economy.”

    We all know that Wall Street is a major contributer to the enormous pressure on lenders. But I said before that I felt there needed to be systems or checks and balances in place that would raise “red flags” on these unethical practices. Unfortunately, like anything, people who want to find ways to circumvent the system, can. And did!

    Comment by Arlene — January 21, 2008 @ 3:54 pm

  30. This post will probably hold a recored for time continued and number of comments. It is not only a large story but a very important one as well. I believe we will see more stories like this one from around the country.

    History does repeat itself. I have been, for several weeks now, doing research on the Great Depression to find similarities to what we are currentlly experiencing. Not to my surprise (remembering what I learned in school) the similarities are staggering. The major difference was the “feeding frenzy” and “speculation was in the stock markets instead of the real estate markets.

    If you remove the “vehicle” you would think you are reading current events. Simple, everyday people were “dupped” into purchasing stock, values manipulated, stock brokers misrepresenting facts to the public and our old vererable large corporations and business people at the head of it all.

    What drove this “frenzy” leading to the crash was the availability of credit. The beginning of margin accounts whereby the stock broker would borrow money from the bank and in turn loan it to their customer at 20% interest. So, if an investor had $100 he could buy $1,000 worth of stock. Sound familiar? Credit driven by credit.

    Greed was the engine and fraud was the driver. I guess, we, as a nation have not learned anything yet.

    My daughter recently enrolled in an economics course at FAU. On the first day of class her professor told the them that they are living in a time that their children and grandchildren will be studying as economic history of this nation. Cay Clubs may certainly become a “case study”.

    One more similarity. Very little was done to stop the manipulaton that was occuring. The nation was experiencing a period of extreme prosperity (similar to our times recently) and no one wanted to stop the prosperity train until it naturally imploded or shall I say melted down.

    The true victims of what is occuring, is our nation as a whole, our children, their children and their children’s children.

    We can’t undue what has been done but we can certainly write the story now, teach the story and prevent future generations from falling victim to prosperity driven by greed and spawning fraud at all levels of our society, both willingly and unwillingly.

    This doesn’t ease the pain for those involved but we need to make something positive of any bad situation. John Walsh of America’s Most Wanted cannot end abductions and murders of children nor can he put an end to crime. He certainly cannot bring his son Adam back, but what he can do and is doing is helping to get one more criminal off the street and maybe save a life by doing so. Our task is the same.

    Comment by Larry Rubinoff — January 23, 2008 @ 1:15 am

  31. How many of the brokers and lending officers do you think were also owners(investors) of these properties?

    Comment by Kerry — January 25, 2008 @ 1:11 pm

  32. Your comments have a great deal of truth to them and the comparisons are shocking, with a few exceptions.

    We all were enjoying the “prosperity train”; investors, homeowners and all of us who had various positions within the real estate industry. Of course, no one wanted it to “stop”.. Yet I firmly believe whether an investor, a professional in the business or average consumer, you knew the “bubble” wasn’t going to last forever. It couldn’t. It was becoming a” runaway train”. Everyone knew, as with other types of investments, there was risk. I don’t see where that was the real issue in this situation. Risk is one thing – fraud is quite another.

    Yes, the issue was the Corporate GREED! Executives within the organization not being satisfied with the generous profits the affluent market was generating. It’s appalling to think that intelligent people use their talents negatively to devise fraudulent methods to make obscene profits, especially when they know the devastation it will cause. And they had to know it would ruin people. It happens over and over because they think they are above reproach. They think they can outsmart the world. You know the saying “you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time”. And their time has run out.

    And that fact is another difference with this scenario. People are not being complacent. Owners are taking action.

    Little did I know when I wrote to Ralph, the enormity of the Cay Club sham. And although somewhat embarrassing to have my inability to sense any inappropriateness exposed publicly, I knew permitting Ralph to publish my letter could help. It would not only help my son and daughter-in-law but the many others who were dubbed by these criminals.

    And it has done just that. My husband and son went to Vegas to personally inspect the project and investigate what was taking place. They were fortunate to meet with other owners and attorneys, and uncover the harsh commonalities of their situations. It was at this point, as owners, they realized there was strength in numbers and that they needed to work together to stop the victimizing of potential buyers.

    I’m proud of our son who has taken a major stand and become a prime advocate in uniting the Vegas owners. While he and his wife, and a core group of owners are victims, they are making something positive out of a bad situation. Victims whose attitude is “enough is enough”. Victims who are standing together to resolve, not only their individual situations, but to make this development whole for all the owners, and put a stop to the criminal shenanigans.

    Victims who are taking on the task of exposing the crime and the criminals; to put them out of business and hopefully see them be prosecuted, as well as continue to raise awareness of such schemes. They are to be applauded for their willingness to take on such an endeavor.

    Comment by Arlene — January 25, 2008 @ 7:31 pm

  33. There are many unit owners who are still not aware of what is going on with Cay Clubs. They are not aware of what has been happening behind the scenes. They don’t realize that they were defrauded out of their hard earned money through a variety of scams: fraudulent appraisals based on insider sales, altered condominium documents that gave private ownership of common areas to the developer and the costs of common area maintenance passed on to the owner through a “HOA” fee of $400 per month and after violating every promise both written and expressed, the developer disappears only to resurface long enough to continue to collect rentals monies he (Mr. Clark) claims are his due!
    Is there any end to the violations of ethics?
    And to think Mr. Clark is enjoying his third, yes count them, his third real estate scheme. And his sales agents are now operating under new names, new LLC’s but the same type of sales! Condo conversion sales with a promise of guaranteed rental income! Preferred lenders….faith based lending practices…..closing costs rolled into the price…..developer fees…..wholesale prices…..

    Check out Academy Lifestyle Properties out of Fort Myers Florida. It’s the Cay Club boys at it again!!! Beware…

    Comment by Nameless — January 27, 2008 @ 11:15 pm

  34. Are there any owners in Orlando Cay Clubs seeking attorney assistance? (Not including Belt Law Firm)

    Any help is appreciated.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 2, 2008 @ 11:41 am

  35. My husband and I have also invested in the Orlando Cay Club project.

    We decided to go visit the property after receiving a letter from Celebrity resorts saying that they were now the management company. When we arrived at the property we were SHOCKED to say the least.

    This place is a major DUMP. It is a VERY low rental apartment complex. It is basically a ghetto. We realized we had been scammed even more than we thought. The artist renderings we saw at the time of our purchase are a major JOKE. The golf course is dead. The landscaping has been neglected. As we drove through the complex we saw many units with blinds torn up and trash and debris on the porches. Basically it was disgusting.

    We found out that IMG has pulled out from any project that Cay Club was associated with and will not be at this project in any way shape or form. We also found out that Sunvest ( the developer that owns the golf course and 74 inits in Phase 1) will not give any answers as to the future of this property. They refer you to Celebrity Resorts and they don’t have a clue. The property manager we spoke with said that they were hired by Cay Clubs to manage the existing leases and they will not manage our unit at this point.

    In summary, our unit is not in rentable condition. The property is a ghetto. Trust me a tourist would not even think about staying here. The value of our 2 bed unit that we paid 339,000.00 for is probably worth 75-100,000.00 at best. Yes, we are now questioning how ANY appraiser could have appraised this unit at what they did. Basically we are paying a mortgage on something that is about as close to not even existing as you can imagine. We too, as in the previous comment had a 790 credit score and are now trying to figure out what on earth to do. We have other assets that would come into play if we go through foreclosure. Yet we can’t keep paying on something that is this bad. Any advice would be appreciated.

    Comment by cheryl — February 2, 2008 @ 12:20 pm

  36. We also have laws but that dosen’t mean anyone will follow them that is why we have all this fraud.

    Comment by Bob — February 8, 2008 @ 11:14 am

  37. I’ve read them all – Ive also been duped. My life credit and financial situation is in peril. This is a horrible feeling, and I constantly drive myself nuts trying to figure out the best out. But what people don’t realize is that you literally have to be broke (which most of us have equity in our homes, savings, 401ks, pensions, etc) to be forclosed on, and becaue of it would like get a deficiency judgement for life, versus a deficiency judgement being forgiven on the difference of the debt and sale price. Bankruptcy is just as bad becasue with new laws, you are basically on a payment plan the rest og your living life, forced to live a govt decided fixed income to eat, live, drinnk water..the basics. In either case, I don’t see a good way out of this fraud. This stuff will be hung up in courts forever is my guess. My kids, my savings.. they are both vulnerable to the future of this mess I idiodically got myself into. 770 credit score will be gone, and who knows what else. I am so upset with myself and my naivety.

    Comment by Also Duped by the scheme — February 20, 2008 @ 11:03 pm

  38. I am now at peace with legal representation. Whomever said there is power in numbers, I agree. This is the best way to avoid long term financial disaster. Unless you have the money and gut to do nothing or keep paying for 0 value, it’s time to sign up with the firms handling these fradualent sales, appraisals, and overall network involved.

    Comment by Also Duped by the scheme — February 26, 2008 @ 11:16 pm

  39. The group in Fort Myers is not Cay Clubs. It is Ricky Stokes’ team.
    They are and were their own real estate team, working out of their own office in Fort Myers. They have always sold many developers units.

    I feel badly for everyone on here. I too lost a lot, including my money and credit. I think the concepts were good but the timing wasn’t. I think if the market and economy kept going (even somewhat as usual), Cay Club would still be completing the properties. I have been to some of the properties they have completed which were nice.

    It’s just a sad time for everyone. For what its worth, I think all the Cay Club people have lost everything, too. That’s what I hear. I just don’t know why Sunvest and the other companies will not comment on whether or not they are going to finish what was started or planned. It would be crazy for them not to because if things stay the way they are, or continue to go downhill from the lack of upkeep, they will also lose out on potential sales and income. I think they are strong enough and financially able to get things moving in a productive direction.

    Comment by Nameless — March 7, 2008 @ 3:30 am

  40. Can anyone give an update on the lawsuits/FBI/SEC investigations going on? Are the principals in Cay Clubs in any kind of trouble? Thanks.

    Comment by lori — June 20, 2008 @ 8:12 pm

  41. What was Sunvest’s role in Cay Clubs? I know they are developers and have developed some pretty impressive properties.

    Comment by Larry Rubinoff — June 20, 2008 @ 9:43 pm

  42. Sunvest was providing alot of cash flow to Cay Clubs so they could buy properties to “develop”. Unfortunately they never “developed” anything. They bought alot of stuff, put alot of honest people out of work, then did nothing but let the properties sit and rot. They built nothing, and obviously didn’t know how to manage their new found wealth, because they also put all their staff out on the street. Anyone who says that Cay Clubs built anything is crazy. As for the SEC investigations, I heard Mr. Clark saved enough money for a plane ticket out of the country and is the only one not to give his deposition. What goes around, comes around…

    Comment by sandy — July 17, 2008 @ 3:01 pm

  43. I just purchased a property in the Clearwater Celebrity Resorts ( previous Cay Clubs). The seller on the closing statement is noted to be DC703 LLC, a company owned by the previous manager of Cay Clubs Mr David Clark.

    Now as part of the purchase I inherited a lease and a tenant. The lease was previously managed by Celebrity Resorts. As part of the closing documents I made sure that the lease is assigned to me and that Celebrity Resorts are out of the whole arrangment.

    I have now wired the funds and completed but have a big problem obtaining the keys from Celebrity Resorts, who refuse to acknowledge that the lease has been assigned in my name and that the tenant is my tenant.

    I have been to their office a few times to try and obtain the keys without any luck.

    The last time that I went I felt really intimidated and they told me that I am really rude to request my keys. They also told me that I do not know what I am talking about and should listen to their story.

    Here I should mention that I am a qualified lawyer and I have hired a local attorney to represent me throughout the whole purchase and have done every single step of the purchase by the book and still have problems.

    Celebrity Resorts are trying their hardest to force me to use them as the manager of my property at all cost. Their fees are extortionate ( 25%) of the rental income and their attitude is criminal and intimidating.

    Finally it is really strange that the managment of the Clearwater Cay Club resort is not even mentioned on the Celebrities’ official website.

    Comment by sandra harvy — July 23, 2008 @ 10:16 am

  44. Sandra,

    I am also in the process of purchasing one of the Grand Venezia units long distance. I have seen my unit and as far as I know there is no tenant, but I worry about the taxes, the non advalorem assessments and the monthly fees. Were you able to make sense of the condo doc? I cannot get a straight answer from anyone at the Clebrity Resorts office to any of my questions. I am looking to occupy my unit and not lease it. Any suggestions you or any other owner have would be appreciated.
    Liz

    Comment by Liz — July 31, 2008 @ 9:09 pm

  45. There are true and legitimate people who took over the Cay Club entities- in fact they are the ones who led the deals to Cay Clubs since they had too much on their plates with the enormous real estate boom taking place- why is it that you don’t expect them to finish plans to renovate/build? They found the properties, financially backed them then took them over once Cay Clubs couldn’t pay their bills. They own these places (or other financial backers for other places) so ask them what the plans are. If they are still in business (is anyone anymore?) and they are a great big old huge money company- wouldn’t you think they’d finish the plans or is it that…..no sales= no money to finish? Not sure but at least I’d ask. There is a current owner/developer and the market will likely come back in time (maybe a year or two, hopefully!!). Why is this the end-all for everyone? Can you afford your payments? If you can, have fun visiting your investment, let your Aunt Sally stay there (you can’t do that with a stock- oh yeah, that’s why people started buying real estate like crazy in the first place since they saw all their tech stocks go to the pits- 401 k’s everything and found out that they could use their IRA’s for real estate investing, too)…so have fun there- go to the theme parks and beach- get a tan (not too much of one, though) and hold on tight (unless you lost your job/income like many people nowadays have, especially in this industry) since as long as you have everything equal to the day you filled out your loan application, you should be able to hold on and wait this out. Or maybe not. But I can promise you that you are not the only ones facing plummeting values. Everyone in the USA has and you can blame all you want if it makes you feel better- sue, scream, fight, cuss, threaten- whatever works. But then in the silence of a breather- ask yourself some big questions…Is it only us? How many homes are foreclosing in the USA? In the state? In this county?? How many builders/developers/real estate companies are going out of business? Why? Why did the banks stop lending? Why are so many people not able to make their payments? Why does my uncle Ronnie own 5 investment properties and he makes less than me and I can’t even afford the one I have? Why is he driving around in a Mercedes convertible when I know he’s not making payments on any of his 5 properties? What is wrong with this picture? Why has the biggest developer in the state (several, actually) gone belly up? Every Builder? Why are the banks going belly up? Why is the economy going belly up? You will point and point and point until your fingers and your throat hurts from all the screaming and pointing. But the truth will emerge- it may not make 100% sense as unless you were in any of these industries and knew the norms and standards of practice, they may seem odd or unfair. And your lawyers will keep you raging so they can charge you for your anger venting. That is up to you and you have every right to take full advantage of it. But think about it- that’s all.

    Comment by Anonymous — September 25, 2008 @ 1:50 am

  46. SECURITIES FRAUD??? CONTACT SECURITIES EXCHANGE COMMISSION (SEC). Some condo real estate investments are REQUIRED to be registered with the SEC in an attempt to offer financial disclosure to investors and prevent fraud.

    http://www.hklaw.com/id24660/PublicationId2392/ReturnId31/contentid51297/

    I am not an attorney, nor should this be construed as legal advice -

    Comment by Anonymous — March 17, 2009 @ 10:58 pm

  47. SECURITIES FRAUD??? CONTACT SECURITIES EXCHANGE COMMISSION (SEC). Some condo real estate investments are REQUIRED to be registered with the SEC in an attempt to offer financial disclosure to investors and prevent fraud.

    http://www.hklaw.com/id24660/PublicationId2392/ReturnId31/contentid51297/

    I am not an attorney, nor should this be construed as legal advice.

    Comment by Anonymous — March 17, 2009 @ 10:58 pm

RSS feed for comments on this post.

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.