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Drinking the Cay Clubs Cool-Aid: Part I
The people selling real estate investment opportunities in Cay Clubs Resorts were slick. They didn’t just ensnare unseasoned investors in their web of lies, but they also managed to catch some fairly sophisticated real estate investors who were already experienced.
Recently, I heard from Jamie and Joe Castagna. Jamie was a loan processor at the time, who, as this story unravels, became a licensed mortgage broker. Her husband, Joe, is an electrician who had experience investing in real estate. They knew what they were doing, but as Jamie says, they were so impressed with the Cay Clubs Resorts promises and presentation and the professionalism of their sales reps, that they had few reservations about “drinking the Cay Clubs Cool-Aid.”
Here, Jamie relates Part 1 of the story about how Cay Clubs and Partners turned her and Joe’s lives upside down.
Jamie and Joe met in October of 2002 at Fort Myers Beach. We became good friends and eventually dated. Joe’s main career was an electrician, but in 2001 he started to invest in real estate. Jamie was involved in the real estate industry since high school and at that time was a loan processor. We both had a passion and love for real estate.
We eventually got married in December of 2003 and had our first child May 15, 2004. During this time we started to invest together in different real estate properties and it was a big success. With Joe having gone to real estate training and his previous experience working for a very large real estate education company and Jamie’s background in the financing, we made the perfect team!
As a newly married couple and new parents we had a serious drive to do the best for our family. In January of 2004, Joe secured a job at Findwhat.com and was in the facilities operations department. We continued to search for good real estate deals and worked hard to support our family. In approximately October or November 2004, one of Joe’s co-workers, Colin Brechbill approached him at work one day and said:
“How does a guy like you afford an Escalade on a Findwhat salary?”
Joe proceeded to tell Colin that we invested in real estate. After that point, Colin latched onto Joe like a leach. Joe had brought home different brochures from EarthMark Companies and talked to Jamie about these investments that Colin was offering. Joe said to Jamie, “I know that these investments are a little out of our price range, but please look them over.” Jamie reviewed the brochures and really did not know what to think, due to the limited information provided. The information that was in the package was for property at Mariner’s Club Bahia Beach and Mariner’s Club Key Largo. It included floor plans, aerial views of the waterfront property, an Appreciation Analysis–(showing an average of overall appreciation of 73.22% to 158.54%)–and the history of the company. It seemed like they were established developers with a great amount of success. Jamie figured that it was at least worth taking a look at.
A few weeks later (October 2004), we decided to take a trip up to the Tampa, Florida area to check out the two new developments that Colin Brechbill had told us about. The first place that we visited was at the Mariner’s Club Bahia Beach in Ruskin, Florida. This was a pre-construction opportunity which required 10 to 20% down as a deposit. You then had to close once the construction was complete. The property was shown to us by Jodi Zartman, and she even gave us a coupon to treat us to lunch at the beachfront restaurant that was located there.
After leaving Bahia Beach, we went over to the Clearwater property located in the Grand Venezia. We were told that this was a condo conversion, originally built by the same company as the high end Bellagio Casino/Hotel located in Las Vegas. Colin Brechbill steered us more in the direction to purchase at the Clearwater Cay Club, due to the fact that Dave Clark was splitting from EarthMark and was going to be running Cay Clubs. He also sold us on the fact that we would be getting a 15% leaseback check at the time of closing to pay our mortgage payment over the next 24 months while the amenities were being built. The property at Clearwater was a beautiful condominium complex, and with the added amenities we only saw the upside potential.
After many long talks, looking up information on EarthMark and SunVest (Cay Club’s parent company), and doing our due diligence, we decided based on the information provided and history of the companies’ success we would put down a $5,000 reservation deposit.
We had decided to purchase Unit #1130, even though we had never stepped foot inside the condo. Based on us looking at the outside and imagining what the type of view we were paying for, we trusted that we were getting a great deal. The reason why we could not go inside is because it was currently occupied by tenants and they did not want us to disturb them.
During the next several months we kept reviewing the paperwork that had been given to us showing the professional artist renderings and plans for our future condo. Jamie had also been working hard contacting the “preferred lenders” on the list given by Colin Brechbill. On Thursday, October 28, 2004 Colin emailed Joe some answers to questions that we had and everything sounded good. We first talked to John Garafola, a home loan consultant for Countywide Home Loans, and he told us that he was purchasing a unit in Clearwater too. He was very excited and said that we were getting a great deal. He proceeded to pull Joe’s credit and pre-qualified us for a loan in the amount of $550,000 on November 1, 2004. We then just sat back and waited for the green light to move forward with getting a fully executed sales contract.
During this time, we were so excited about our new investment that we decided to hold a meeting at our home and allow Colin Brechbill to come over and do a presentation on the property and Cay Clubs. We invited our friends, family members, and a Realtor that we knew. Colin arrived late dressed in a suit and said that he had just flew in from Las Vegas (he seemed like a pretty busy guy with the ultimate real estate investment). He delivered his Power Point presentation on our back lanai and distributed marketing materials and his contact information.
Towards the end of November 2004, we were waiting to get our sales contract finalized. Jamie was in contact with Kim Miller in making sure that the contract was written up correctly, as the price had changed from $400 per sq. ft to $350 per sq. ft. (Now we really thought that we were getting a deal!) But there was a discrepancy in the price, as I calculated the price per sq. ft dropped by $50/sq. ft x 1140 sq. ft. = $57,000 difference. So in an email I broke down the numbers for Kim Miller, showing that $350.00/ sq. ft. x 1140 sq. ft. = $399,000 plus $61,600 View Premium, less their initial discount on the condo being $17,700 which totaled $442,900. Needless to say they did not give us the discount, and we purchased the property for $459,900 plus $14,000 towards closing costs which totaled $473,900, final sales price.
They did encourage you to roll in your closing costs and membership fee into the purchase price. (Looking at the bigger picture now, they were doing this to increase the sales prices and to make the comps look better.) The contract that was sent to me was not very professionally prepared, as I would assume it would be. There were blanks left everywhere in the contract. I requested these blanks to be filled in prior to executing any agreement. They did as I requested, so I signed it, and Fed Ex’d it back to the main office in Clearwater with the remainder of our deposit, $43,142.00. In addition to the sales contract, there was an Agreement to Lease with CC 701, LLC. This lease showed that our unit would be rented for 24 months in the amount of $68,985.00.
Now we had a 10% ($48,142.00) NON-refundable deposit sitting with their escrow agent, Stump, Story, Callahan, Dietrich, & Spears, P.A. Again, Jamie was following up with Countrywide to see where we were at with doing the closing. John Garafola at Countrywide kept telling Jamie that we could not close until Clearwater Cay Club/Grand Venezia had received its condo Fannie Mae Approval. There was some problem with the way that the condo docs were written and the developer holding control of the garage units. (Now we believe that it was because they needed somewhere to store the furniture, hotel supplies, and whatever else they needed to run the property as a nightly rental complex.)
After months of waiting, Jamie, a licensed mortgage broker decided to start shopping for a loan ourselves. During this time, Colin Brechbill advised Jamie on whom to use as an appraiser for the property/condo. She was directed to Benchmark Appraisals out of Naples, Florida. It seemed a little odd that they would use an appraiser over 3 hours away from the property, but again trusting Colin (who had befriended us at this time) we proceeded to order an appraisal from Benchmark on 04/14/2005. The appraisal came in at $540,000 ($66,100 above full sales price).
We eventually closed with First Guaranty Mortgage Corp. on May 13, 2005 at the Clearwater clubhouse with Kim Miller, the closing coordinator. We signed all of the mortgage documents, closing documents, and our final 24-month lease agreement with CC 701, LLC. The attorney’s office was going to do a mail-away closing, but since we had never seen our unit we thought it would be best to drive to Clearwater (2.5 hours away from our home). Then we would do the closing and see the unit that we were getting ready to purchase. After consummating the purchase, Kim took us to our unit, which was being renovated at the time.
Then on May 26, 2005 we received a Fed Ex package with our check from CC 701, LLC for $68,985.00. At this time, we thought our responsibility was to just manager the mortgages and pay the bills. We were under the impression that Cay Clubs, “the developer,” was managing the process of fixing up the condos, putting in the world class amenities, and getting a rental pool put together so that when our leaseback ended we would have tenants that wanted to stay in our unit.
Our timeframe on this project was to hold the property 1 year and 1 day (to avoid capital gains) or a maximum of 24 months. During this time, all of the amenities would be complete and we would have a condo with a great amount in equity at a prime location. It was, as Colin always told us “a no brainer.” You did not have to think about the deal because it was so good!
During this time, Jamie wanted to refinance the 2nd mortgage, as we had done a 100% financing, and the rate on the 2nd mortgage was very high. So, in August of 2005 (just 3 months after our original purchase), Jamie ordered an appraisal to be done, by a local Tampa appraiser whom she found in the Yellow Pages. This appraiser was not referred by anyone at Cay Clubs. The appraisal had come in at $627,500. This was unbelievable; we had acquired $153,600 in equity in just three short months. This seemed like a deal of a lifetime.
As a result, we started to talk to more of our friends and family members about this excellent opportunity that we had found with Cay Clubs. None of our family members were really into real estate investing, but they had seen our history and trusted our advice. So by the end of 2005, Jamie’s mom and step dad had closed on a unit in Clearwater, Joe’s brother and sister-in-law had closed on a unit in Clearwater, Jamie’s mom’s best friend closed on a unit, friends from our church closed on a unit, and another friend closed. We were so sure of this deal.
In September 2005, Colin Brechbill again was talking to Joe about the next few projects that Cay Clubs would be rolling out of their portfolio. Colin had graciously set up a meeting for us to meet the #3 Block Buyer, Mr. Ricky Stokes. Ricky met Joe and Jamie at Page Airport in Fort Myers, Florida on September 7, 2005 to fly us on his private plane down to Islamorada to check out their new pre-construction project.
On the way in the airplane down to the Florida Keys, Ricky proceeded to tell us that he was a commercial airline pilot, CPA, and investor just like us. He also made it a point to tell us how he attends McGregor Baptist Church, sings in the choir, and is an auto dealer and gives all of the money that he makes to charity. So he painted a very nice picture of himself. We felt like we were dealing with an honest Christian man. So, after the trip down to the Keys we had strong reservations about putting a deposit down on the property.
The property was an old strip mall that still had commercial rental tenants, who were waiting for their lease to end, and the timeframe seemed too long. Since Ricky did not sell us on the Islamorada property, he started talking about what a good deal the Las Vegas property was. It offered all of the same things as the Clearwater property that we had already invested in, 15% leaseback check, $25,000 worth of furniture, converting the property from a three-star complex to a five-star complex, the agreement with the Rio Casino and Hotel for the tram and overflow guest, etc. He sold us, and we put a $15,000 deposit down that day, not even knowing what unit we were buying. He created urgency to get into the position before it filled up. We took the bait and were into another Cay Club property.
At this point, we were drinking Cay Club Cool-Aid. They had us so convinced that we had found the best deal in real estate! Stay tuned to see how this great deal turned upside down!
Jamie is currently busy composing Part 2 of the story and hopes to have it completed by the end of the week.
I would like to thank both Jamie and Joe for having the courage to share their story and warn other prospective investors about Cay Clubs Resorts and similar operations across the country that are doing their utmost to scam honest people out of the hard-earned cash.
Filed under: Cay Clubs Resorts,Countrywide,Uncategorized
A Ralph Roberts Site, Copyright 2005-2008 |
Jamie and Joe have the same story, line for line, as me. Ethical salesmen who sing in the choir, appraisals that were in excess of the purchase price, water front property that never goes down in value, etc. Looking at a beautiful property that was serene and peaceful….yet we know now they had no intention of building out the rest of the complex.
We never knew the town of Clearwater would not give us nightly rentals and thus monthly, long term rental income would never cover the enormous costs associated with owning a unit.
Also, how were we to know Cay Clubs would go out of business, refuse to return deposit money, refuse to pay pre-paid lease agreements, refuse to furnish condos that owners had paid for???
How could we predict that they would alter condo docs and keep common area land and buildings for the developer yet pass the common area costs on to the owners?
How could we know they would secretly create another LLC to rent out the Las Vegas units and keep 50% of the nightly rental?
How could we know they would not allow the homeowners on the condo board and hold secret meetings without our knowledge?
And we still don’t know how intelligent and trusting people would be so callously taken advantage of by unscrupulous salespeople and developers. They knew all along that we were being led to the slaughter.
Why?
Why not deliver as promised?
Where is Dave Clark hiding? Where is Ricky and Colin and Dave Schwartz?
Only 6 months ago Clark and Schwartz were looking at selling to Key Hospitality and making millions in stock.
Comment by Nameless — January 28, 2008 @ 10:43 pm
Hello Nameless,
To answer your questions to the best of my knowledge, Dave Clark is living in the Florida Keys, Ricky Stokes and Colin Brechbill are still in the Ft Myers area, Dave Schwartz is living in the Orlando area. These guys are still at it, selling condo’s in Orlando (Eaglewood Apartments) picking up right where they left off with Cay Clubs. We will have strength in numbers if we all join together as one force!! Have you filed a complaint against their Real Estate License with the DBPR?
You can do so by going to: https://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/index.html
On the left side of the page FOR CONSUMERS click that link,
Third link down click on: File a complaint against a Business or Professional, follow the directions from there.
This will get some attention and these guys will have their License REVOKED !! Stopping them from continuing to financially ruin other Investors like yourself. Take action today !! Stop listening to the lip service of these smooth talkers. Stop Drinking the Cay Club Cool-Aid as these other folks mentioned. Contact Ralph Roberts to learn more about the service he is providing to us damaged victims !!!!
Comment by Mr. Justice — January 28, 2008 @ 11:28 pm
Would love to report these slimy scum bags that have ruined my life. They have so many different names that they work under, does anyone have the names that their licenses are under?
Thanks
Comment by Another CayClub VICTIM — January 29, 2008 @ 2:41 pm
Another Cay Club Victim writes:
Would love to report these slimy scum bags that have ruined my life. They have so many different names that they work under, does anyone have the names that their licenses are under?>>
Oh, that’s so frustrating. The guy who ripped us off used several (FOUR) different names and companies to do it, too. All of the “businesses” operated under one single license, though. Check with the state, as it may be the case with your fraudsters, as well.
I often wonder if part of the reason scammers use several names is to launder money or evade taxes. I can’t imagine that people who will rip off fellow human beings are above scamming Uncle Sam.
Comment by Dawn — January 29, 2008 @ 8:29 pm
To :Comment by Another CayClub VICTIM — January 29, 2008 @ 2:41 pm and
Comment by Dawn — January 29, 2008 @ 8:29 pm
Just go to the Comment by Mr. Justice — January 28, 2008 @ 11:28 pm and click on the site.
When you get to file a complaint against a Business or Professional, just fil-in the name of the Real Estate Agent that your fileing a complaint about, for example: Dave Clark, Barry Graham, Ricky Stokes, Colin Brechbill, Ron Tager, Dan Beit-Or, Adiel Gorel, etc, etc, just fill-in the name of the Real Estate person that lured you to the Cay Club Investment. Again, this may stop them from continuing to sell more Cay Club Units.
Comment by Mr. Justice — January 30, 2008 @ 7:17 pm
It is amazing to watch home many people will get thrown under the bus just to protect themselves. Mr. Justice aka Joe Castagna is obviously one of the people. I know this because he sold my husband and I a unit while he was working a Cay Clubs booth at an ICG event while he was with Mr. Stokes. I am only calling a spade a spade and be careful what and who you beleive. The truth is Cay Clubs and specifically Dave Clark should be held accountable for this mess. I know many of the defamed people being exploited and most notably Colin Brechbill and Arthur Keeley who through all of thus did their best to answer my call long after Cay Clubs avoided me and did their best to get me the answers I needed and get me in touch with those responsible. I dont think these guys are due all the slander but can’t let someone else blame them to save themselves.
Comment by Mrs. Justice — February 5, 2008 @ 9:40 pm
To Mrs. Justice
Our divorce is now final, so you can go back to your maiden name. Wrong guess on the aka, try again. It is very obvious that you are still enjoying the lip service that Colin Brechbill and Ricky Stokes are offering. Lets face the facts here, Colin and Ricky are trying to pass the full blame to Dave Clark, Barry Graham and Cay Clubs when in fact, they are still working together under Sunvest. You really must ask yourself, how could these guys expect you to believe that they are victims of this Scheme when they continue to work with/for Dave Clark and take advantage of investors paying massively over inflated sales prices for nothing more than glorified apartments, and reaping the 4.5% commissions. You do the math on how many units they sold and are still selling and Colin and Ricky expect you to believe that they are broke ? Yeah right, it’s only a matter of time before Justice is Served.
Wake Up Mrs. Justice !! Stop drinking the Cay Club Cool-aid !!!!
Comment by Mr. Justice — February 6, 2008 @ 4:31 pm
Mr. Justice your continued plight to railroad individuals only shows you are vindictive. I dont consider it lip service when they have done right by me by continuing to help me once cay clubs took off. Why dont you explore the actual culprits here and dig into the lives of Barry Graham, Dave Clark or Dave Schwartz. If you are going to nail these guys why not every employee of Cay Clubs. Your personal knowledge looks like you were involved and need a scape goat to rid your own involvement. Why do you hide behind a fake name? Mr. Justice you kind disgust me!
Comment by Mrs. Justice — February 6, 2008 @ 5:57 pm
Mrs. Justice why do you hide behind a fake name? My only intention here is to bring out the Truth. I am not causing anyone financial devastation here, Cay Clubs, Dave Clark, Dave Schwartz, Barry Graham, Ricky Stokes and Colin Brechbill are the main characters in this massive, fraudulent, nationwide, financial devastation to us innocent Investors. You must be completely naïve to be further persuaded by Ricky and Colin who portray themselves as victims like us. That’s a lie, they together only own a few units, not 10 to 20 Units in each Cay Club location as they tell everyone !! Ricky states that he is a Pilot, a CPA, and an Investor just like us. In fact, he is a Realtor just like Colin, who work directly for Dave Clark under various companies. These guys have Scammed innocent Investors across our Nation and caused us to now face foreclosure, bankruptcy, and financial ruins for years to come !! It is obvious that you are close to Ricky & Colin, and perhaps you are still on their Payroll. Someday soon, you too will Wake Up and realize that you have been Scammed !!
Comment by Mr. Justice — February 8, 2008 @ 12:18 pm
Neither Ricky Stokes nor Colin Brechbill worked for DAve Clark Cay Clubs. They were realtors. They sold units for several developers. They set up their own office in Fort myers to solely sell development units. All the $$ stopped, everywhere and it is not all due to the people you all are blaming. Most of all, it is due to people like yourselves who took out $500k+ loans (seveal) plus helocs to become “investors” looking to make a buck. The demand fueled the supply. Most likely, you make no more that $100K per year, yet, you like everyone else (and their mother, brother, etc.) went out of their way to get financing (which you only would have gotten if you lied to your lender “stating” that you make far more than you do). Sadly, Cay Clubs is only in a small hand full of projects. The problem is everywhere, nationwide. All developers are going broke, all lenders are at fault, all investors lied to make a quick buck- and lots of realtors made lots of money because the leners were so easy to fool. Sadly, also, the realtors cannot and do not twist your arm or hold a gun to your heads – or even (gasp) sit with you and your lender to begin the lying process. They do not close your loan. They do not even (gasp) fill out your loan paperwork. It’s obvious people are out to make a buck as “investors” when we see the bright young mortgage lgage associate, who is obviously well versed in the lending process, go to take out a line of credit on a mortgage she just secured (wrongfully, most likely given she probably made way less than she told her lender- in order to qualify for a $500,000 condo as an investment property, when she most likely made barely enough to cover the mortgage on her primary residence. People always want to blame everyone but themselves, but the truth is they need to look long and hard in their very own (gasp) mirrors and ask themselves a few honest to god questions: 1. Did I go out of my way to tell my mortgage lender I made enough to handle buying a $500K+ investment property? 2: Can I really afford to buy a $500K investment property? 3: if answer to qq #2 is no- then, 4: Why did I buy a $500K investment property? Then, when an economic downturn in real estate hits, and you continue to not be able to make your mortgage on your primary, secondary, etc. mortgages, you find others to blame. The bottom fell out everywhere. Developers and sales people everywhere are now broke- even the big multi billion dollar companies. But if you could really afford your mortgage/condo you, yourself, applied to get (and you got it), you’d make it through this downturn, because as the nice young mortgage professional knows (as she’s studied the business), the lenders go by what you “state” as to whether or not you actually could survive any hardships and still be able to pay them back for their first and second mortgages. So it becomes apparent you can’t. Now whose fault is it? For anyone to throw blame is sad. Everyone is accountable for their own actions. I’m sure the promises made by all developers would have been realized in time, had sales stopped everywhere, 100%. Everywhere, especially in Fort myers, developer units are going for less than half of what they cost to even build. Cay Clubs has nothing to do with that. Speculators do. ANd lenders for being to easy to dupe. Developers just rode the wave and financial backers threw $$ out to them to get as many projects going as possible. And they do. The plan was great. out of 1500 condos sold in 3 years, 140 didn’t get their lease back. That’s not a scam- that’s financial ruin. Salespeople also rode the wave- some far better than others (ie Ricky Stokes and Colin Brechbill) as they were the most aggressive realtors I have personally ever met (that’s probably why they sold most of Cay Clubs units). The held (with their own $$ webinars, seminars, telemarketing call centers, etc. They had their own facility but they did focus a lot on Cay Clubs because of the lease back opportunity. Lease back opportunities usually come along with redevelopment projects as when you buy pre-construction type real estate, you don’t close for a verrryyy long time. With redevelopment, the people have to close right away, and the developer gives the commission right at closing and also the lease back check with in a few weeks. The leaseback is to hold people over until some progress has been made to add additional improvements (though nothing is promised within leasebacl timeframe)- it’s a way for the people to make payments for awhile and if real estate had kept boomin like it had between 2000-2006, everything would have gone as planned. I do not believe the developer is a crook or slimy. Realtors sell. Everyone, I believe, had good intentions- but probably no one saw this catastrophe coming (in the re market, overall and also the economy). But to blame everyone but yourselves is not right.
Another blog out there says: Look around you, and you will quickly see the bottom falling out on real estate everywhere (Cay Clubs was involved in a handful of projects only), especially due to real estate “investors” like yourself. Not entirely due to the builders and developers (Cay Clubs obviously didn’t create the COUNTRYWIDE real estate nighmare). Without demand, there is no supply. There was more demand than you can fathom.
Dave Clark and Cay Clubs were only in a handful of places in Florida and 1 in Las Vegas when the bottom fell out. Their vision was good- offer people real estate in great places (waterfront, etc.) and offer a way for them to be able to pay their mortgages for awhile, while they were creating the proposed amenities and renting out the units along the way. He meant well and he would never try to scam anyone. He has more lawyers working and advising him on what is legal and not continuously. And, most importantly the units were priced as what was to come- not what it was, as most of the places he developed were REDEVELOPMENT projects- in places where it is difficult, if not impossible to start from scratch. For instance, in Clearwater, they DID tear down the delapidated strip mall in front of the project, then buy all the buildings surrounding it (although when the economic hurricane hit- they had to give it back to their financial backers). Most pre-construction projects are just that- you hold onto a CONTRACT with a small deposit down while they build your unit/house/etc. So, you don’t have to make a mortgage payment on that- you just wait for the construction to be completed. That is not so with REDEVELOPMENT projects. You have to close on a unit and still wait for the developer to finish what he is trying to do. That’s where the leasebacks came in. They get a check and that helps cover their expenses while the redevelopment occcurs (it is not guaranteed the redevelopment will be complete by the end of a usually 24 month leaseback period).
To insinuate that these investors were all idiots following the lead of some stock broker-type consultant is insulting. People research and research to figure out if they are going to move forward on a purchase (as they SHOULD). AND EVERYONE got what they bought- not some stock that turns into thin air (which all the investors who bought stock in WCI, Centex, Developer Corp Anywhere, etc. DID- they must be scam artists, too>??) They got real CONDOS, some waterfront, some walking distance to the Las Vegas strip…wherever- they got something they could rent out themselves (when the leaseback period was up), SELL (woops- no one can sell right now for normal price- and that is EVERYWHERE- not just the handful of developments they developed), or USE….how sad and tragic. Phooey on you.
Dave Clark had a 20 year perect track record. Yes, he had a development fail in 1988 (HEY, isn’t that the last year ALL the developers failed, as well, due to 18% interest rates, etc!!) but from then until 2008, he was the guy many financial backers came to, to develop a project for them. That must be because he’s such a rotten fellow..? Whatever.
Stop blaming everyone but yourselves, the market, and this whole nightmare of an economy/mortgage crisis. Even if friends and family members were first buyers anywhere, that is normal when you have prime units for sale. To suggest these people are scam artists is ignorant and rude. They had a 1,300 person staff for many years- provided jobs, health insurance (even to lowest level employees), and most of all a vision that would have worked out if people like you didn’t shoot yourselves and all of the rest of us in the proverbial foot.
All of us investors are upset because we got ourselves into a big financial mess trying to make our own quick bucks- don’t blame everyone but yourselves. That in essence is like a child blaming his mother, teacher, etc. for his misbehavior. Did you tell the truth to your lender when you were going to buy that 5th, or 10th investment property? Probably not. Did you tell your lender you only really make $65k per year while you took out that loan for $500k for your 3rd investment unit- no, silly. You STATED your income and lied like probably the rest of us. Because we could. That’s where WE are to balme for theis real estate fall-out/nationwide crisis. WE created this because the rules allowed us to be anyone we WANTED to “state” we were. To think all the buyers of real estate are stupid is in itself, stupid.
Dave Clark developed several very successful projects including Herons Glen in Fort Myers, Bahia Beach (turned into Little Harbor) in Ruskin, Rolling River in Jacksonville, and several places in the Keys. To smear him, his family, his associates, or anyone else because you are mad at yourself is downright pathetic. He didn’t twist anyone’s arm- he provided a vision and a mind to make the vision into a reality. But when the $$$ stop altogether (as they did EVERYWHERE in real estate- North Carolina (he’s not there)- Georgia (not there, either), California (nope), etc., etc. and he is not, himself a rich man- he uses financial backer $$ to develop developments. So I’m sure he’s in the same boat as you. Broke and in a pickle. Keep shooting.
I second that.
Comment by Investor — February 17, 2008 @ 4:06 am
I actually firsted that, too
Comment by Investor — February 17, 2008 @ 4:11 am
These people are the same people (upset w/ Cay Clubs) suing Sun Trust Mortgage and many other mortgage lenders/banks because they are claiming the mortgage companies should have “known they couldn’t pay back their loans”
. Whatever- people are always trying to blame everyone else. Now your lawyers are charging you to sue whom? The mortgage lenders and a broke and bankrupted developer and a realtor. Hmm…????
Everyone wants to blame the developers and realtors for the fact that they took out loans, knowing they couldn’t afford them, hoped to flip their real estate quickly while paying interest only mortgages and expecting leasebacks to carry them through until their units sold. Then the real estate market stopped. People are ticked but didn’t they take out loans, lying to their lenders about how much they make and can afford? Absolutely. Can’t wait until the investigators start investigating borrowing liars. Then they’d stop being mad at everyone but themselves. What a farce.
Comment by What?! — February 19, 2008 @ 5:09 pm
C’mon people. Don’t you know that every investment is guaranteed to give a positive return? People don’t lose on any investment here in the U.S. Everything is guaranteed in writing. I know my Google stock was guaranteed to go up 600% which is why I bought it. People didn’t really lose 50+% of their 401k’s in the late 90′s either. If they did then their financial adviser definitely lied to them because they averaged 12% return in the past so anything less is unacceptable. Any 401k or IRA that lost money must have cooked the books and pocketed the money somehow. Investments aren’t supposed to be risky. I am investing in a Pharm co. that has a drug on the horizon that will be the next wonder drug if approved. The FDA said they would have a decision by mid 2008 so we should be good there cause I know the Gov. always holds to their time lines. If the FDA denies it then I am definitely suing someone damn it cause I invested money from my equity line on my primary residence. Oh and a cash advance on a credit card but whos counting.
Comment by Anonymous — February 19, 2008 @ 7:56 pm
Ha! That’s exactly what I’m talking about. The funny thing here is these people killed their own investment potential (along with the market/economy)- they actually fast forwarded and buried it . And it’s the people foreclosing, leaving the dead body for the rest of us investors who CAN hang onto our units through the hard times to figure out how to keep it from rotting away completely.
Comment by Investor — February 22, 2008 @ 12:02 am
There are alot of things that “Investor” is oblivious to and alot of things that he or she is unaware of in how this whole Cay Club masterpiece came together. Or maybe “Investor” is aware of exactly how it was pieced together but is guilty and wants to throw it back on the victims who are the lenders and the buyers of Cay Club properties.
“Investor” keeps commenting on how it is the buyers fault for stating their income too high, and that maybe true for a portion of owners. What about those owners who did qualify, who did full doc loans, who did state their real income, or what about those aggressive loans such as No Ratio loans (this is where there is no income stated just employment is verified), or even better a No Doc loan (no income, no job, no assets are verified) – who is at fault then?
Bottom line is that the buyers who purchased properties from Cay Clubs and/or affiliates were frauded. The developer made up his own comps, which created his own market value, and sold the investors a lie. All of the Cay Club projects were based on lies, but the question is where did it start? You need to look at the masterminds who put it all together! Who are the ones who kept telling the lies for months and months to keep the owners hanging on the edge of their seats? Such as conference calls with Dave Clark, listening to him tell the owners that in 6 months there WILL be a water park in Clearwater. Believe me there is NO water park even in the process of being started! Lie, after Lie, after Lie. Alls I can say is that the TRUTH will come out and the ones who did lie will be exposed!
Comment by Research Diva — March 12, 2008 @ 12:39 pm
To Mrs Justice 2-6-2008 post, Investor 2-17-2008 & 2-22-2008 post, What?! 2-19-2008 post, Anonymous 2-19-2008 post,
You must all be in the “Inner Circle” with Dave Clark, Ricky Stokes & Colin Brechbill. Please continue to expose yourself on this Blog. Do you really think that you are anonymous? The real truth is all we should focus on discussing here. The financial damage has been done to many innocent Investors across the Nation. We were sold over inflated Condo Units with promised Amenities, 2 year Leaseback funds from the Developer to act as our Tenant while the Amenities were to be built. The Developer used Straw man purchasers in the beginning to create the sold comps (as discovered in public records) and then persuaded Investors to use the Cay Club Preferred Lenders for Financing and the Closings were to be done only by the Cay Club Attorneys (Stump, Story, Detrich, etc). The Truth will come out and you “Inner Circle” members will all do some time for your involvement with the crimes committed over the years. The Investors and the Lenders are the actual Victims in this grand Cay Club scheme. You Choir Boys will soon be singing the blues in your cells and you can enjoy getting handled by Bubba in the jailhouse showers as we know you enjoy the man to man action. God will be fair and just, you will get all that you deserve. I believe that all of us Cay Club Investors will eventually get through our financial mess someday but you Cay Club “Inner Circle” Demons will all rot in Hell.
Comment by Mr. Justice — March 12, 2008 @ 2:00 pm
Yes, I am sure God can’t wait to hand out the man to man action as punishment.
I don’t believe I said anything in my post that would warrant being “handled by bubba” and I am not an “inner circle” member as you call it. I was merely making a point that no investment is guaranteed regardless of what people tell you. Liars suck and if anyone was lied to during their purchase, I feel for them.
Comment by Anonymous 2-19 — March 14, 2008 @ 1:06 pm
Added to the facts that have been mentioned – the lies, the deception and the fraud, is the manipulation initiated by those in power at Cay Club. You can “spin” things however you like. But please, don’t make Cay Club Executives out to be rightous individuals.
Honest people don’t abuse their power. They act responsibly. They work to perserve & enhance the integrity of their project, not destroy it.
Ask these noble men about retaining ownership of the common areas. Ask them why owners have to waive any rights against Cay Club if they use Desert Tides to rent their unit. Ask them about the zoning change to “time share”.
There are more questions they should be confronted with, but those give you a good idea of who’s really pathetic – Dave Clark, and his band of thieves.
Comment by Arlene — March 14, 2008 @ 5:09 pm
YOu can all point fingers or you can try to do something to protect your investment.
we have chosen to do something.
We own two units at Las Vegas Cay. AKA Desert Tides.
Do some homework. The internet is a great place to find out info. Research who owns Desrt Tides and then look at a company called marina Associates.
Research who owns all the units. It’s not Flamingo Palms Villas, The information is all on line.
There are a group of owners that are trying to band together to have owner representation on the board.
Final nominations were sent in by the March 11 deadline. There are 10 nominations for 5 board slots.
2 of the nominations have direct ties to Dave Band. 2 we have not been able to confirm anything on and the other 6 are legitimate owners. Some with great hotel/condo managment and corporate contract experience.
It may take a while, but some of us truly believe that LVCC can be pulled out of the current problem and hopefully at least make each of us whole.
We can whine or we can fight. I got past the whining and now I’m fighting.
Get involved! Rugs only get stepped on.
Comment by tasha — March 19, 2008 @ 7:01 pm
You’re 100% correct, Tasha. Not sure who your remarks were targeted to – regarding pointing fingers or doing something to protect your investment.
But I can tell you, I’m fighting for my kids. And he is one of the good guys working w/the owners to get owner representation on your HOA- Both my son & daughter-in-law are fighters & they’re fighting, like you, and they have chose to do something – something for themselves & for the other owners too.
The issue is not to allow people to represnet you on HOA who do not have the owners best interest in mind. That’s not only stupid, it’s deadly.
Hopefully, the owners vote smart. And you all know who the good guys are, as well as the bad – Don’t put your future back in the hands of those who caused the problems to begin with!!! BE SMART!!! LISTEN to the Owners –
YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE & YOU CAN SUCCEED, IF YOU ALL WORK TOGETHER FOR THE COMMON GOOD OF YOUR INVESTMENTS!!!!
YOU MUST TAKE A STAND. YOU MUST GET INVOLVED. YOU MUST VOTE “REAL, HONEST, STRAIGHT” OWNERS TO THE BOARD.
Comment by Arlene — March 21, 2008 @ 12:11 am
Instrument: 20080321-02337 Book/Instr:
Document Type: Deed Recorded: 03/21/2008 10:23:27 Pgs: 8
ReRecorded: N Remarks:
Requestor: SARASOTA COAST INVESTORS LLC
1st Party:
Legal Description: ParcelNum: 16220111008
References:
Tot Value: $1,350,000.00 Property Value: $1,700,000.00
RPTT: $0.00 Exmpt Code: Percent: 100% ATag: F
START JUMPING UP AND DOWN ANOTHER FRAUDULENT TRANSFER FIND THE MONEY BEFORE IT IS OFFSHORE
Comment by stop — March 21, 2008 @ 9:07 pm
THIS WOULD BE FLAMINGO VILLAS (CAY CLUB) TO SARASOTA COAST INVESTORS
I WONDER WHO THE CORPORATE OFFICERS ARE
Comment by stop — March 21, 2008 @ 9:10 pm
Here is some information regarding corporations that are involved in the transaction listed above by “stop”:
Please NOTE the PRINCIPAL ADDRESS so you can see that Desert Tides aka David Band has the SAME principal address as the company Sarasota Coast Investors. You can assume that this is David Band, even though he is not listed as the principal agent.
You can go to: http://www.sunbiz.org to verify the below information:
DESERT TIDES LLC
Filing Information
Document Number L07000111334
FEI Number 261728511
Date Filed 11/02/2007
State FL
Status ACTIVE
Principal Address
1991 MAIN ST BOX 183
SARASOTA FL 34236
Changed 02/25/2008
Mailing Address
1991 MAIN ST BOX 183
SARASOTA FL 34236
Changed 02/25/2008
Registered Agent Name & Address
BAND, DAVID S
240 S PINEAPPLE AVE 10TH FL
SARASOTA FL 34236 US
Name Changed: 02/25/2008
Address Changed: 02/25/2008
Manager/Member Detail
Name & Address
Title MGR
HOLT, CRAIG
4200 S VALLEY VIEW BLVD
LAS VEGAS NV 89103-4029
Florida Limited Liability Company
SARASOTA COAST INVESTORS, LLC
Filing Information
Document Number L07000105407
FEI Number 261261026
Date Filed 10/17/2007
State FL
Status ACTIVE
Principal Address
1991 MAIN STREET, BOX 183
SARASOTA FL 34236
Mailing Address
1991 MAIN STREET, BOX 183
SARASOTA FL 34236
Registered Agent Name & Address
KANE, STANLEY B
1991 MAIN STREET, BOX 260
SARASOTA FL 34236
Manager/Member Detail
Name & Address
Title MGR
KANE, STANLEY B
1991 MAIN STREET, BOX 183
SARASOTA FL 34236
Annual Reports
Comment by Research Diva — March 27, 2008 @ 8:40 pm
To all LVCC owners,
I would again, remind all of you, to vote carefully for HOA Board members. As it’s been said, they are only 5 SLOTS & to date, 10 nominees. If you have participated with the group of homeowners , (as mentioned by Tasha) then you do know who the legitmate owners are that have been working together to give the HOA rightful powers to help turn this complex around.
Hate is a strong word. But it’s the best word to express my feelings.
I hate what these unscrupulous executives have done to people.
I hate seeing what my son & his wife are going through. I hate learning, that what I thought was a legitmate real estate investment, was so fraudelent. And I also hate the thought that this could be perpetuated if the HOA falls back into the hands of those who have ill intent or much worse.
You know who the good guys are – Vote for them!!! And if you don’t know, then go to the web site & participate w/all the good owners trying to turn their investment into something of value.
It’s in YOUR hands. VOTE RIGHT!!!!!
Comment by Arlene — March 28, 2008 @ 10:59 am
It happened that I was looking for a condo and spotted the Desert Tides condo/hotel. To my surprise, the properties values have dropped from $400,000-$500,000 to currently around $100,000, such depreciations are way much more than the other condos in the same zip code. To my further suprise, the association fee can come to several hundred dollars as if this condo/hotel was a 5 star hotel with top amenities and facilities. I went there to take a look and found that it was nothing more than a regular condos and not even with elevators. All the pavements inside the condos were not neat with some trash here and there, popped up broken concrete pavement was left without repairing, and not even a small plant was planted along the block walls and that made the entire condo/hotel look as if it was sitting on an industrial site. My broker said she couldn’t believe the kind of 5 star hotel class HOA fees could have delivered such a bad job on the image of the condo/hotel. After reading the posts on here, I would think the victim-owners must have been ripped off again by someone from the inner circle who has his/her way or power to make big profit from the HOA fee without the need to deliver good job.
Being an outsider and by reading the posts written by Mrs. Justice, Investor and Annonymous, I have a strong feeling that all these 3 persons are certainly a part of the inner circle whose ulterior motives were to re-direct people’s attention away from the scam artists, at least it is how I feel.
I said good bye to the Desert-Tides condo/hotel and bought another condo which has much better management and much less HOA fee, and most important of all, no bad people existing in the HOA to rip me off.
I wish all of the victim-owners could work together as a strong team to stop being further ripped off and could get your investments back on track very soon.
Comment by Tom Ohara — May 31, 2008 @ 3:44 am
Is this Colin Brechbill the same one who is now associated with a company called Elocin Nire, Inc. of Florida?
Comment by Maggie — June 19, 2008 @ 2:23 pm
Ricky Stokes has started a “foreclosure consultant’ business which calls people up that are in foreclosure and lures them into paying them $1200 by telling them that they have foreign investors that will buy their homes. the company is called Equity Management Solutions and their website is http://www.ems-world.com
Comment by fyi — June 23, 2008 @ 7:56 pm
I laugh at all this. My husband and I live at Bellagio at Baywatch at Clearwater (the original name) when all this stuff started. I told everyone that this was the beginning of the end, but no one would listen. We sold our place at the height of the market, and we laughed all the way to the bank. Willful blindless leads to utter bankruptcy. All I can say is “I told you so.”
Comment by Carrie Bekker — July 5, 2008 @ 11:43 pm
Does anyone know what is happening to the units on sale by auction at Venezia now? Is the maintenance fees being collected? Is the homeowners assoc in control now ? What about Belagio? Is that a regular condo and is that in acceptable financial condition? Does anyone know anything about the water intrusion problem. I would be very grateful for any feedback ans I am considering buying a unit there.
Thanks,
Comment by v hall — July 7, 2008 @ 6:26 pm
I would suggest talking with the Property Manager of each association. I would also review the latest copy of the respective associations’ financial reports. Be sure to read the condominium documents BEFORE you purchase.
Comment by lori — July 10, 2008 @ 10:43 am
Our family purchased one of the older renovated condo hotel units at Bahia Beach, Florida that the Cay Club was developing. We thought at the time it was a good investment. As it turned out two years later we were not able to sell our unit and we had to let it go to foreclosure.I believe we all need to take 100% responsibility for everything we do. That includes the good and bad choices we make. “Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” BUDDHA
Did our family get hurt financially by this purchase? Yes!! However, we have chosen to accept full responsibility for our decision and it’s consequences. May I suggest you all consider doing likewise. Stop blaming others for your decisions and move forward with your lives. Learn and remember the lesson life has taught you and apply it when another opportunity comes along.
Believe me, another opportunity WILL come knocking someday.
Comment by Richard — August 16, 2008 @ 3:32 pm
Just for the record, Cay Clubs had nothing to do with the property now known as Little Harbor in Ruskin, Florida. It was formerly known as Mariners Club Bahia Beach and is currently owned by Earthmark companies. Dave Clark used to be a partner in Earthmark, but left to form Cay Clubs. (he didn’t build anything there either)
Comment by Sandy — August 16, 2008 @ 4:17 pm
Hello.
Anyone that wants to know where Colin Brechbill is can reach him in the Fort Myers area at the following locations. His email is : cbrechbill@elocinnire.com. Ive done my part. You all handle him now
Comment by Person who knows Colin — August 22, 2008 @ 1:29 am
Wow, this is great perhaps someone can tell me where Dave Clark is so we can get our money back. Is this a informative website or a place to put hate comments?
Comment by Anonymous — August 22, 2008 @ 12:50 pm
Richard:
Well said and spoken.
Comment by Larry Rubinoff — August 22, 2008 @ 2:16 pm
Well, I have just seen these properties on realtor.com and got interested in it.
http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=33764&typ=6&sid=fa61fe64c372454982abdac95bff2af6&pg=4&lid=1102423879&lsn=36&srcnt=231#Detail
http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=33764&typ=6&sid=fa61fe64c372454982abdac95bff2af6&pg=4&lid=1101169607&lsn=37&srcnt=231#Detail
http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=33764&typ=6&sid=fa61fe64c372454982abdac95bff2af6&pg=4&lid=1098539224&lsn=39&srcnt=231#Detail
I subsequently decided to do a little research on it. The first thing I came across was this link and these comments. Should I forget about buying anything in Grand Venezia all together?
Comment by Irina — August 23, 2008 @ 8:02 pm
I have seen a few properties in Grand Venezia advertised for sale on one of the very reputable websites, and decided to to some research on them.
And short did last my excitement once I found these comments.
Should I forget about buying at Grand Venezia all together?
Comment by irashpir — August 23, 2008 @ 8:13 pm
I own a unit at the Grand Bellagio. It is a nice development. I purchased the unit just before Cay Clubs came in and bought the remaining roughly 40 units in the Grand Bellagio plus the entire Grand Venezia. I was fortunate enough to pay just under 200k but now it seems my unit is worth less than I paid for it in 2004.
It did always seem that the players in the development were the same and just changed the corporate name. I did always get the sense that there was something wrong and that the people who worked at the association were on the side of the developer and not the unit owners. Living out of state and having only been there a few times it was hard to get a sense of who was telling the truth (the year round residents or the associon people)
It turns out that the year round residents were correct and eventually forced the developer out and took over the association. The problem now with the association is that 1/3 of the units are in foreclosure and people are not paying their maintenance fee which has caused those who do pay their fee to almost double the monthly fee which is based on square footage of the unit. It seems that the taxes are being reduced by 25% due to falling prices in the complex. The developer lied to the existing unit owners to get them to change the bi-laws regarding leasing. They said if the vote to reduce from a 7 month rental to a 30 day rental would entitle the unit owners either $15k or a free membership in cay clubs. Neither occured nor did the hotel/waterpark planned in front of the complex that was approved with the understanding that the grand bellagio residents would have use of it.
I believe that Dave Clark is as others have stated. Fortunately he did not cause me great financial loss as he did to many others at the Venezia. They obviously mistated sales prices to establish comps for future loans. Within a couple of months of buying in the complex, units were being sold for double what I paid and that does not just happen over night without some sort of fraud.
Those who have been victims should report the mortgage fraud to the fbi. They have a division that handles these types of things or send someone to Dave Clark or Dave Schwartz’s office and explain what happens if they do not make everything right to their victims. Both ways of doing things usually create positive results.
Comment by george — August 25, 2008 @ 10:02 pm
FYI George, there were what 10+ meetings for months and months before anyone voted on the change in rental minimum. George, to clear up a few misconceptions, the money was used to renovate hundreds of units, furnish them, buy and tear down the crumbling Bingo strip mall out front, etc. How did they lie to you? Your HOA fees went up because they went bust- like every single development in Florida and country wide due to investors not being able to afford their “investments” so foreclosing. Ask your neighbor who bought 4 units why they did that or why they’re foreclosing….I mean he is a retired teacher, right? Shouldn’t he be able to afford those 4 $600,000 units? Certainly! And so should his father, who is 85, his sister who is unemployed but hoping her “investment” will enable her to take out a Home Equity Line of Credit (HELOC loan) to pay off her credit cards and go on that cruise she’s always dreamed of…I mean that crooked developer shouldn’t have bought the place so these people could have a place to “invest”!! What a disgusting crook to buy a development and the surrounding properties, buying the golf course rights next door, to offer a vision that would have absolutely worked out like his 10+ other developments he’s created throughout the years, had the whole real estate and lending world not collapsed! Jerkl!! But that nice neighbor, Mr. Jones is such a sweet, poor little victim and wait- don’t have any hard feelings whatsoever for him- heck he was just trying to make a buck, right? Riiigghhhtt…Sick for a developer or realtors to do what they do (and have done, legally and well for many, many years)- but AOK for a newly coined “investor” to do what they wish to do. Unless you know for certain your accusations to be true- which I know for certain are not as public record will verify, please be sure to state your comments as “opinions”. ps- the boat belongs to the financial backers who funded the development, along with everything that was previously owned by the company (that boat was the “club boat- not a personal vessel of greed as you assume- which is so easy and fun to assume thre worst, isn’t it?). If you truly lived by your Buddhist philosophies, you would seek understanding, truth and peace, not lies, accusations and threats.
Comment by Anonymous — September 23, 2008 @ 12:23 pm
For anyone interested in Cay Clubs’ shenanigans… the girlfriend and accomplice of Mr Cay Clubs was arrested Oct 10, 2008 in the Florida Keys for running a fraudulent rental scheme which conned clients out of $104,000. The article says it’s unclear whether she and Mr Cay Clubs are still a couple, and that “there’s no evidence” that it was affilaited with Cay Clubs, but Clark ran a number of enterprises using her name, “Cristal Clear” this and that. He was the money behind all the enterprises… or more correctly he masterminded how to get the use of other people’s money.
Manager accused in tax, rental scam
Today’s Keys News
By Robert Silk Citizen Staff
Prosecutors say the manager of an Islamorada and Key West vacation rental company that closed abruptly in May stole $104,000 from customers and her homeowner clients.
Cristal Coleman, 34, who owned Cristal Clear Rentals LLC, surrendered to authorities and was released on $150,000 bond Friday afternoon.
She is charged with one count of scheme to defraud over $50,000, a first-degree felony that carries a maximum of 30 years in prison. She also is accused of failing to remit more than $39,000 in bed taxes to Monroe County, a second-degree felony.
She plans to plead not guilty, said her attorney, Hal Schuhmacher.
“We are trying to ascertain what monies, if any, are owed,” he said. “If monies are owed, she intends to repay any monies that are due. There was never any intent to defraud people.”
Coleman created a wave throughout the local vacation rental industry in April when she sent a mass e-mail announcing that Cristal Clear had closed. The agency, she wrote, would not be refunding security deposits to customers nor would it be turning over any funds already collected, but not yet disbursed, to homeowners.
Investigators found that before going out of business, Coleman had cleared out escrow accounts designed to safeguard deposits made by customers on rental units, according to Paul Meyers, chief investigator for the Monroe County State Attorney’s Office. The prosecutor’s office has evidence of 20 people who lost money from what it calls a “scheme,” he said.
Coleman’s April e-mail, in which she wrote that the economy had caused her to not pay what she owed, amounted to an insult, Meyers said.
“That is not just victimizing people. That is slapping them in the face as well as stealing their money,” he said.
Cristal Clear Rental was one of a network of businesses that was associated with Cay Clubs — the high-profile development company with numerous Florida Keys holdings that fell into ruins last year. Coleman, who now lives in Melbourne, Fla., was the longtime domestic partner of Cay Clubs CEO Dave Clark. The status of their relationship was unclear Friday.
Meyers said there is no evidence that Clark was involved with Coleman’s rental business.
rsilk@keysnews.com
Published Saturday, October 11, 2008
Comment by Fuzzy — October 11, 2008 @ 8:31 am
Surprise, surprise, surprise…Oh, and Anonymous…where are these 10 + other developments he’s “created” throughout the years? I worked for him but didn’t hear of 10 + other developments…And by the way, the money was not used to renovate hundreds of units, you’d be stretching it to say a couple of dozen and most of them never got the promised furniture packages; and that “crumbling” Bingo strip mall, which while it may have been somewhat of an eyesore, still housed a few business that had employees and customers…
Comment by Sandy — October 25, 2008 @ 12:29 pm
These people – Clark, Schwarz, Stokes, Earthmark, and all the rest, were frauds from the get-go. My husband and I lived at Grand Bellagio when Del American sold its interest in the property to these clowns. I checked these people out the minute they arrived and they stunk to high heaven from the beginning. We told our neighbors, I showed everyone what I found in the public records, it was clear that they were fraudsters, but our neighbors didn’t want to hear it. I alerted local, state and federal authorities and they didn’t do anything either. This was a case of willful blindness by our neighbors, who didn’t want to see the truth. So instead, when we sold in 2006 at the height of the market, they lost everything because they wanted to believe these people, and so Clark, Schwarz et all took them for everything they got.
Comment by Kimmy West — January 13, 2009 @ 3:42 am
lubs product (The Real Estate Company of the Florida Keys) and there were 6 offices throughout south Florida (mainly in the Keys one in Ft. Laud)…well the people running it (old managers who were kept on after the purchase) were stealing the company blind. Cristal Coleman went in to help save the company once Cay Clubs started going down from the economy and market bust. She pulled it out of the hole by $400,000 but couldn’t get over the last hump. The old accountant conveniently forgot to pay the taxes, as well and that was already being handled by the new accountant but nothing can stop a crooked prosecuting attorney trying to make a name for himself for VOTES (although it backfired and he lost anyway). You guys need to find someone else to pick on. The one guy who they say was owed $36,000 was actually (he and his husband Tripp Hoffman) were actually the biggest crooks- who stole over $400,000 worth of contracts and forged signatures saying they were theirs while opening their own company on Cay Clubs/Cristal Clear Rentals/Waterfront Resort Realty’s dime. I’m sure he’ll back down once he knows HE’s being prosecuted, too. Just to get the facts straight. Wouldn’t want any vicious rumours out there flying around by a bunch of petty gossips.
Comment by RF — January 28, 2009 @ 2:14 am
And yes, Dave did develop properties for over 20 years. Go take a look at Mariners Club Key Largo, Herons Glen (which I believe Toll Brothers bought after Dave and EarthMark split up), Rolling River, Bahia Beach (until he and EarthMark split), many residential and commercial properties throughout Orlando and the Panhandle, as well. What, do you guys live to throw dirt at people- look up Developers, Realtors, Builders, Banks, etc., etc. going belly up and you will find that your conspiracy theories don’t hold water. You just need someone to throw your darts at- but everyone lost in the last years. And yes everything went up substantially from 2002 to 2006 then hit a HUGE brick wall in 2007. You say you could smell a fraudster but in the same breath say you thought the old developer was the same as Cay Clubs? What the HELL are you talking about? They are entirely different people with the same problem- they both went belly up in their efforts- but you know what? IF ANYONE WENT INTO CLEARWATER CAY CLUB trying to do anything, they would be shot down by you piss and venom zealots. I would love to interview the guys who took over the project (yes, they could fix your woes if you LET THEM. They made ALL the money on the project- ask them for your rights. They have your money- as does the crusie lines, etc that you took out all your loans to invest with off your properties! Help your developer and you will help yourselves, or do what you do and watch NO ONE ever dare buy in there again, watch your market values decrease even more so because no one wants to live in a place so popular for its NEGATIVITY. That place is one of the most beautiful developments I have ever been to and you make it sound so horrific!! WTH???
Comment by RF — January 28, 2009 @ 2:25 am
Is the developer out of the picture now? Is the HOA being run by the residents/owners? How can I get more information on the current financial picture to evaluate purchase?
Thanks!
Comment by Cindy — February 9, 2009 @ 11:37 am
Glad I found this site – was thinking of buying a couple units. Taxes and mantenance are ridiculous for what are very ordinary apartments and wait for those assessments!
Comment by Jake — March 26, 2009 @ 2:04 am
HOA questions can be directed to GRAND VENEZIA HOA, INC. 727-535-0429. Foresclosed units on the market, as of today’s date, starting at $184,900 – UNBELIEVABLE when compared with what these units were ‘appraising’ for just a few years back. Too bad; it’s a great location.
Comment by Lisa — May 5, 2009 @ 10:59 am
I am a new owenr of Grand Veneiza and we have elected a new board which are consist of five owners. Also it is great news that we get rid of Celebrity Resort (fraudler too, save as Dave Clark) and have our new management company.
You can reach the new management company by 239-352-6780. Anyway, i am glad that we are back on right track and Grand Venezia will become Grand again.
Comment by Heather — August 13, 2009 @ 4:46 pm
Dave Clark & Cristal are living happily on Providenciales in the Turks & Caicos,
Comment by Rich Jennings — October 1, 2009 @ 11:08 am
Search As,none across rise real neck as almost between much entry deliver step decision cover next loss position technical happen royal steal farm view above attack switch less brief curriculum later below build little close night studio remind employment original concept north will ring separate hotel return despite ear successful patient fee state possibly response here village walk answer affair possibly attention video drink anyone perfect might climb all light back project telephone wait fear return historical hang buy need sea street community
Comment by Aimpretty — December 4, 2009 @ 10:46 pm
Dave Clark and David Schwarz were selling real estate under Dave’s fathers name Fred Clark. David was in charge of the books………….living in Orlando, very wealthy…………….and Dave & Crystal are in the turks caicos………has a pawn shop………..fits right up his alley………..probably selling off assets of Cay Clubs…….furniture, t.v.’s, etc….computers….and they have a restaurant. David said to someone lay low and we’ll begin again in a few years………………why doesn’t he get slammed as much as Dave Clark. Clark was oblevious to everything and left David in charge of the books……………what about Barry……………not stokes…..the head guy for Cay Clubs…………….he should be arrested as well.
Comment by Screwed too — December 23, 2009 @ 3:34 pm
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Comment by Johna Cardella — October 3, 2010 @ 9:54 pm
My wife and I are going to be going down to the Tampa area in December to look for a second home. I have seen several units for sale at the clearwater cay club but have also have seen a lot of negatives for the property. I am wondering if any of the problems have been cleared up and what are the present downsides to buying a condo there at this time. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Comment by chris deering — November 22, 2010 @ 8:13 pm
Chris, there are some great deals in Grand Venezia and new owners like myself, with the new COA, are beginning to make the community a better place again. There is still a long way to go, since about 1/4 of the units are still delinquent, but when I bought in 2009 it was over 2/3 of the units. Some units come fully furnished with very high quality furniture and the bay views can’t be beat!
Comment by Linda R. — November 28, 2010 @ 11:48 am
Thank you for discussing these real estate opportunities! This is the type of deal I have been looking for even though it is probably long gone by now, it gives me another direction to look into. Thank you again!
Comment by Shyloh Real Estate — March 2, 2011 @ 12:59 pm